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Manual beat mixing crew, check in!

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR 3' started by S1L1C0N, Feb 7, 2008.

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  1. S1L1C0N

    S1L1C0N Forum Member

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    409
    Anyone else use traktor as pretty much just a way to mix digital media? I use a VCI-100 and manual beatmatch, pitch adjust while cueing, no sync track starts, and manual adjustments to maintain sync. When I picked up the VCI I didn't know if this would work but sure enough i have all the fine control I need to not feel like a jukebox! I'm coming from many many years of vinyl.

    Anyone have a different way of doing things?
     
  2. jimmyv

    jimmyv NI Product Owner

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    354
    I manual beat match as well. Once in a while I will use the sync button if I am mixing something with a goofy beat, or if I am talking to the ladies and i realize there is 15 seconds left and I forgot to beat match I just hit the button and instant beat match. It even impresses the ladies showing them how fast i can mix 2 songs. It even helps me score some times.
     
  3. S1L1C0N

    S1L1C0N Forum Member

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    Lol Lol Lol! ! ! !
     
  4. braane

    braane Forum Member

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    27
    I also have a VCI-100 and I'm slowly learning to do it all manually (unfortunately I have no vinyl background).

    The scoring chicks using the sync button part was way too funny! :)
     
  5. TeLLy

    TeLLy NI Product Owner Extraordinaire

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    6,430
    Full manual here (turntables with control vinyl). I don't see anything wrong with hitting sync during gigs where a DJ is no more than a glorified jukebox (ie corporate christmas parties), makes for an easier set when you're lazy or want a few extra seconds to go grab a drink or a washroom break. But for the clubs, I don't do 4-turntable setups so there's no excuse for me not to spend a few extra bars getting things synced up with the pitch control.
     
  6. djjasoncarroll

    djjasoncarroll NI Product Owner

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    354
    Its a black art and I love it, have to say the sync button can save the day when ya need to do a brown one ;)
     
  7. signaturex

    signaturex NI Product Owner

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    2,116
    :p too many buttons i can think of:)
     

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  8. rocdollar

    rocdollar NI Product Owner

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    947
    Manual beatmixing is pure indulgence...why bother? The people that really pay the price is your audience... You think they want to wait that few extra bars?

    I realise it is a hard habit to break if you come from a vinyl background but there are many other more useful tasks you could be performing instead.
     
  9. signaturex

    signaturex NI Product Owner

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    2,116
    ha.. .. someone once told me that "you have no business playing in a club unless you can match a beat in 3 seconds and have it phrase matched in 7" =SKILLS:p -- when that is the case, then manual is faster than working with traktor in some instances. My audiences(when I have them) never know the difference. And more often its like "when is the next song gonna be in" and its then been in for at least a minute. Learn to manual beatmatch it absolutely rules. add dvs technologey ... phreak amazing.
     
  10. S1L1C0N

    S1L1C0N Forum Member

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    Since i'm new to the digital mixing world... explain this "dvs" you speak of...btw, I think you are my new best friend in the forum. Last night without knowing you helped me optimize my system for live sets thx to one of your old posts.
     
  11. rocdollar

    rocdollar NI Product Owner

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    947
    Wow...thanks for the hot tip. Might try and take my sets to the next level and start beatmatching manually...
     
  12. DiscoPoelie

    DiscoPoelie NI Product Owner

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    396
    Dude, even if just using traktor scratch (so manual beatmatch, but with the comfort of quickly locating tracks) I get blamed for mixing songs way too fast! So in practice: I look up a track, load it, beatmatch it, have to wait a minute(otherwise the break hasn't come through), and THEN mix it in....

    So, using auto sync functionality just would make me feel bored when playing at a gig. Offcourse, there is nothing wrong with using this function, but it makes the job reaaally easy, isn't it?

    If your audience has to wait extra bars because you havent beatmatched manually, you just have to practice more: If you can beatmatch properly, the audience has to wait for the break, not for you to finish beatmatching.

    maybe you can compare this with jet airplane pilots: Since fly-by-wire was introduced in the newer airbusses (A340 and such), which basicly means that your computer-joysticks movements go through a computer which prevents you from doing bad things (like overstressing wings), an airplane COULD land by itself. The pilot COULD just set the autopilot, and the plane lands itself. But because this way pilots would:
    1) Feel bored
    2) forget how to really fly an airplane in case of emergency
    they don't do this in practice. Modern airbusses are still landed by hand.

    This is just the same thing in traktor 3: I don't use autosync because:
    1) otherwise I feel bored
    2) otherwise I would forget how to beatmatch in the case that traktor bails out.
    And yes you read that right: some of you use auto sync when the beat gets too goofy for your skillz. In my case traktor thinks the beat is too goofy before I do, so I do the beatmatching myself!

    I do not want to brag about my own skillz. I had to practice for years to come this far. And I'm not against features like auto sync. But I can't follow people when they say that they can't function as a DJ without auto sync features, beatcounters or other things. Learn how to manually beatmatch. It takes time, but in the end you will be able to phasematch in 10 seconds, and be able to beatmatch more tracks than traktor can....

    Oh, and a little PS: I allready hear people saying that if traktor can't beatmatch it, I should adjust the beatgrids... yeah, may very well be, but the time consumed by this is lost forever. And why invest this time? To be doing nothing at a gig? Yeah right. I have a daytime job too...
     
  13. S1L1C0N

    S1L1C0N Forum Member

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    /sarcasm....it really does rule ;P
     
  14. rocdollar

    rocdollar NI Product Owner

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    947
    Dude, in that case, perhaps you aren't aware of what you could be doing to keep yourself busy?

    The time you save (even if it just a few bars) you can use for such things as:-

    * Auditioning another blend (why stop at 2 decks?)
    * Auditioning key mixes
    * Planning not just the next track but the one after that etc
    * Using effects and EQ to shape and modulate the mix to keep it interesting

    These are just a few examples but each and every one is more valuable on the 'front end' i.e to the audience than you beatmatching manually when you simply don't need to - just to prove your own self worth and comply with the stereotype of traditional legacy DJ 'skills'.
     
  15. S1L1C0N

    S1L1C0N Forum Member

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    409
    You took every thought and feeling out of me and put it all up in this thread. My fingers thank you!
     
  16. DiscoPoelie

    DiscoPoelie NI Product Owner

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    396
    Check

    check!
    check!
    check!

    In no way am I saying that I wan't to prove myself worthy to my audience. I do my very best to keep my mixes interesting. All the things you sum up: I do that.

    But keep in mind that there are tons of records that won't work with FX or 2 other records. I'm an allround DJ. I beatmatch things from RnB over funk, house, rocknroll classix, rock to drum n bass. Most rock songs aren't steadily drummed anyway, so traktor's autosync is useless there. only beatmatching and constantly adjusting gets you there...

    But anyway, that isn't the problem I have with auto sync features. The problem I have is with people who think it's a 'necesary' feature. Now you explain yourself closer I get your point. But in your first post you were insinuating that you couldn't beatmatch fast enough for the crowd not to get bored over the current record, and therefore can't function as a DJ without auto sync features. And that is something which I can't get to ;)

    Myself? I manually beatmatch. Not because I wan't to 'be a real DJ' or anything like that. Just because I'm fine doing it myself, and even have time left to do all the things you sum up, and even chatting with some girls or have a beer. Now I have to admit, I always play with a friend of mine, which creates a lot of time ;)

    Auto sync? Go ahead and use it. As long as you have a good reason for using it. Myself I am experimenting with ableton synced to a Xone 3D's MIDI master clock. So I can drop in samples and loops, and actually remix things live. This also is a sort of auto synq. But necessary at this point, as I now have 5 loops running together, in sync with a beatmix that I'm doing manually.

    But then comes the 'shitty' part about auto sync stuff around the corner: The BPM clock on a xone 3D is accurate enough for FX, but totally not for keeping a sequencer in sync... And with every machine or software it's something like that. Ableton Live also does strange things with it's timewarping. Traktor sometimes doubles or halves the BPM, or is just way off. And THAT is the point where I ask myself if al this auto sync stuff is worth the trouble, or if I still should do the work myself. And I say: do the work myself.
     
  17. signaturex

    signaturex NI Product Owner

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    2,116
    Digital Vinyl System

    basically this is brain dump for any kind of technologey that advances the vinyl dj's methods with electronics. I even group jog and mobile platter cd players into this grouping. Especially if they have looping capabilities.

    Ive never even thought that people don't know what DVS means --I just talk about it like its some sort of pre-understood standard. sorry for the confusion.
     
  18. signaturex

    signaturex NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,116

    thats what its all about. and then youget deeper and deeper.

    Something that can work well is setting up beatgrids on these tracks. I think you can make vastly variated beatgrids for different sections and also add the mix in/out cues that also have fades. very important variables to work with. and also nice effects to be had when using the differnt kinds of sync as there is phase sync in addition to time sync. look through your hot key and midi set-up and you will notice that there are different commands for each.
     
  19. S1L1C0N

    S1L1C0N Forum Member

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    409
    np at all I dig it and will join you in utilizing the term =)
     
  20. Macaque

    Macaque New Member

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    572
    Having come from a vinyl background I am still using the pitch fader on my turntables to beatmatch my tracks. I don't use the sync button, just the phase meters, as I like how they make it possible to beatmatch without headphones.

    I don't know if this classes me as still being a manual beatmatcher or not? Probably not. I mean, I'm not really using my ears to beatmatch anymore, I use my eyes then I just use the headphones to cue the track up.

    I find it fun to beatmatch this way but I fear it may make me lazy, causing my ear for beatmatching to decline.
     
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