MASCHINE and Traktor 2.5

Discussion in 'KONTROL F1' started by Eqube, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. mojo88

    mojo88 NI Product Owner

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    As a new user I'd like to say thanks to all for their involvement in clearing things up. At one point I was about to feel a tad vexed about the whole thing since I've been an owner of Maschine and recently decided to get my feet wet by getting an S2. Perhaps this microwave society that we're in gets the best of us at times. So I'll exercise some patience as I learn to play nice with my new toy. It's interesting to find a community that's passionate about their craft.
     
  2. scamo

    scamo Administrator Staff Member

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    And that is also why Traktor is so good. People are really passionate about it and for many different reasons. This is also why NI really needs to be careful about how they handle future developments. They certainly don't want to destroy that passion. They need to keep it flowing and smartly use it to earn their living.;)

    scamo
     
  3. Pagaille21

    Pagaille21 New Member

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    +1
    Doing a classic apple and making us pay for the innovation.
     
  4. djdivide

    djdivide NI Product Owner

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    Whilst I'm not overjoyed at the decision NI has made here, I think this post is a little silly - who else, other than customers, do you expect to pay for innovation?

    NI is in the business of selling products - ultimately they bring to market things to make money. Sure, some decisions may cost them in the long run, but don't make the mistake of thinking that NI exist to furnish you with ever-better products via free updates. That would last only until their money ran out and then you'd have to kiss the whole thing goodbye.

    I want to make clear that I think the F1 would still sell like hotcakes even if remix functionality was opened up to other controllers - just look at the S4 - people are willing to pay for tight integration between hardware and software. I think locking features is short-sighted for the reasons that others have already articulated, and am glad that NI are looking at changing things in future updates.

    I suspect people will use their existing hardware for a while, get skilled with the remix decks and think 'damn, if only I had a better controller for this' at which point they pony up for an F1.

    Just my $0.02.
     
  5. kraal

    kraal NI Product Owner

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    i am not sure there will be anything new to get skilled on remix decks wise without the f1
     
  6. DjStrategy

    DjStrategy NI Product Owner

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    +1! Word!;)
     
  7. zephry

    zephry NI Product Owner

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    My opinion. But also the mapping and functions of the remix decks being limited keeps the tech support from having to waste a bunch of time and money helping all the users that cant get them working with just any controller.
    Why should Ni waste time helping someone with a competitors product?
    I think (my opinion) this (slightly off topic) could be some of the reasons for the limits on other hardware(timecode?) as well. Opinion/theory not fact.

    Keep in mind most other controllers do not have a dj software for them. They are kinda piggybacking NI and Traktor.
     
  8. Mystic38

    Mystic38 NI Product Owner

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    2,286
    I have zero issues with NI limiting the use of other competitors controllers... however this particular thread is about Maschine and Traktor 2.5, not (insert other manufacturer here) controller and Traktor 2.5, so the construct is not "helping someone with a competitors controller" but more "helping their customers, and maximising the return for NI"

    NI clearly manages the two product lines separately and is not thinking big picture... after all, with full support of 2.5 in Maschine, sales of F1 will still be strong, yet some folks will look at Maschine as a decent alternative to F1 and therefore buy maschine instead of F1.. so NI would sell MORE $$...

    I am likely typical of a maschine/traktor user and state that since i have already spent $600 on a NI controller with 16 pads, buttons and rotary encoders... Hell will freeze over before i spend $275 more on ANOTHER NI controller with 16 pads, buttons and rotary encoders..

     
  9. zephry

    zephry NI Product Owner

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    @mystic
    yeah you are totally right. Ni should not limit its own hardware. I guess I was thinking of mashine as more pf a producer tool. But I guess not.

    I did get off topic. Its just that the F1 is so pretty and new. But yeah I agree the mapping should be open to or maybe software patched? to maschine and micro at least.

    Maybe a feature request for an uneditable software patch to the x1 maschine and micro. Seems reasonable.?
     
  10. Mystic38

    Mystic38 NI Product Owner

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    2,286
    np!..

    as for the patch?.. seems very reasonable to keep faith with your customers :)

    and i think NI would benefit greatly ..not only in customer appreciation from existing maschine users, but traktor users may view mikro and maschine as realistic $$ alternatives to F1.

     
  11. scamo

    scamo Administrator Staff Member

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    321
    I disagree that this decision is good, because it could benefit NI's Support. All NI has to say is, "We simply don't support mappings or functional problems, when 3rd party controllers are involved." It's a very fine line to differentiate such problems between the controller and the software, but it is there now anyway, since 95% of the software CAN be controlled by 3rd party controllers.

    scamo
     
  12. awol9000

    awol9000 NI Product Owner

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    1,083
    Contrary to NI (Maschine: On the record #5) Maschine & Traktor don't seem to be "moving closer to each other" or becoming more intergrated.
     
  13. MikeSkillZ

    MikeSkillZ Forum Member

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    I know i wont be able to get the full monty of the remix decks...as i will with the F1..but im mapping the basics right now to my Maschine! :) Itll take ALOT of fine tuning...but...it seems to be working for me right now ...
     
  14. alepeinador

    alepeinador NI Product Owner

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    I don't think I can post to another site but...
    it looks like many options will be available soon to control the Remix Decks with other controllers, Midi Fighter being the first one to do it.

    Hopefully Maschine will soon be able to talk to them.

    Agree with you awol9000, seems like Maschine is not moving any closer to Traktor, how sad.
     
  15. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

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    26,765
    yawn. from what i can see and read: not at all close to the functionality of the F1.
     
  16. don léone

    don léone New Member

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    NI wont like that...

    http://w w w.djtechtools.com/2012/05/31/fou-great-hack-projects-unlock-traktors-remix-decks/
     
  17. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

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    26,765
    you're wrong. NI couldnt care less... as i said before... none of those "projects" come close to the full functionality of the F1.
     
  18. rainerh

    rainerh NI Product Owner

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    2,465
    I disagree a bit ;)

    Did you see my Lemur template for the remix decks?
    What is missing at the moment is setting the quantize value and capturing loops from track decks.
    And it is just a question of time to get this working too.
    Anybody who already has an iPad and the Lemur apo can use remix decks for free.

    And I used the same approach as for the Lemur for a mapping for the Xone:K2, and this is working fine too.
     

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  19. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

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    26,765
    yeah, sure :)

    but still... it's not "it" to me for several reasons. #1 having to place an ipad (which i would never buy) next to my normal computer. it's bigger than the f1 and badly shaped in comparison (#2) and it doesnt even have (#3) physical controls.

    also missing the key lock and effects thingies and some other stuff, but you probably put them somewhere?
     
  20. rainerh

    rainerh NI Product Owner

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    2,465
    Yes, sure. The slot parameters can be set on the Xone:K2 by holding SHIFT and pressing the parameter button in the switch matrix in the lower part of the controller (see the PDF attached to my previous posting).

    And on the Lemur by holding SHIFT and pressing one of the pads (screenshot attached here). You also get a SOLO function, something the F1 does not offer.

    But, using an iPad or not, is not related to the question if the "hacks" come close to the functionality of the remix decks or not. It is a question of what controller someone prefers. Some like using an iPad, others don't like. Whatever choice someone makes, I'm fine with it.

    It's more general about having choices.

    And: the F1 is not the only controller anymore to control the remix decks. THIS is the main point.

    In general there are two approaches to get control:
    1. is to simulate mouse actions when a button on whatever controller (be it the K2, be it an iPad, be it an APC 20/40) is pressed. This approach works very well.
    2. is to emualte the protocol between Traktor and an F1. We can see that this approach is working as well, and I am pretty sure that it is only a question of time, until the other functionality of the remix decks can be controlled as well (in the same way DJTT showed in their MF video).

    This means: all Traktor users, who want to use any other controller than the F1 now can wait until the workarounds become widely and more general available. They don't need to buy an F1.
     

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