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Maschine as VST in Ableton Live (getting the best of both worlds) full tutorial!

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by themixtape, Jun 7, 2010.

  1. vinceprice

    vinceprice NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    849
    Yo you guys seen this? This is pretty ill. Scroll through all of your drums really quick.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=839Ug8q10Is"]Ableton Live - Organise Your Samples - Using Drum Racks Part 1/3 - YouTube[/ame]
     
  2. trux

    trux NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    753
    very cool! :cool:
     
  3. robertginkgo

    robertginkgo Forum Member

    Messages:
    37
    Re: Yo you guys seen this? This is pretty ill. Scroll through all of your drums reall

    OK, I got everything up and running, but there's one problem that I can't seem to fix.

    I have the template set in Ableton, no problem. Since I also wanted to be able to handle each of the main drum sounds individually, I ended up routing the first 8 pads (main drum sounds- Kick, Hats, Clap, Snare) from my Group A to their own channels in live, then an additional channel for 8 more percussion sounds from Group A, all going to the same channel.

    This leaves seven more channels of the available 16, and I route one group to each. Everything goes to its own External Instrument track in Live.

    This is all saved, and loads up into Live each time I boot. Check.

    Problem is, when I create a Maschine-as-VST template, it will boot with all the correct routings with whatever initial drum kit I have loaded, but as soon as I load another kit, all the MIDI and Audio routings from Maschine go back to normal.

    Is this making sense? What I want is to say, "Maschine, remember that this Sound Slot or Group will always route to Channel #, whatever sound I happen to load into it."

    So far, I haven't been able to get this working. Any thoughts?
     
  4. nomatter

    nomatter New Member

    Messages:
    12
    scrolling drum racks

    re: your post on scrolling drum racks. I did that for a while...but, it's really difficult to maintain control over what you are choosing with the macro. It sucks when you by mistake hit a knob and don't know which one it was...(67...or 68?)

    Also, the auto-display button is a pain to deal with as you have to make sure you're clicking on the right device and waveform.

    Also, as it's not 64 bit yet (ableton), loading entire drum racks full of samples is a real big drain on your disk-read load (i think that's what they call it), and the limited ram (4 gigs max).

    Although it's helped in the past, for me... it's also wasted so much space, time and completely ruined my workflow. I recommend just narrowing down your sample library...(though, admittedly, i always convince myself i need all those sounds)...and focus on learning how to eq/layer/filter a kick sound you like. sound design is where drum racks excel - as battery and maschine are a nightmare to shape individual sounds. their windows are hard to navigate through quickly and consistently.

    so, use maschine as a tool, then go back and shape your sound to your liking. i admit, the way maschine is now, was a complete letdown in terms of customizing sample placement. But, it's a blessing, too, as I have to build kits myself to suit my drumming style (though that's probably like...the worst way to spend a weekend)

    so...moral of the story. limit your options...be discerning about your samples...and realize that a bad song can't be fixed later...your drum sounds can.

    sorry...i kinda just wanted to warn you before you make a huge kit and forget to save the instrument settings after finding the perfect sample set. it wasted a lot of my time, confused me, and when my hard drive crashed, just ruined my summer.
     
  5. Manolo87

    Manolo87 New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Hi dear Maschine users!
    I have a problem with Maschine as a plug-in in Ableton Live and I hope this won't be totally out of place here...

    I'd love to play Maschine sounds as a plug-in in Ableton Live 8 with an external MIDI keyboard. There is a Korg SV-1 that serves as MIDI keyboard, via USB-MIDI interface (E-MU xMidi) it's connected to my notebook, and there is an Audio Kontrol 1. So far I managed to play the sounds but the thing is there is a latency of about 50 seconds (not miliseconds) which is just a little too much for my taste!
    Normally i don't have issues with latency and the fact that I can trigger a sound tells me that the setup should be okay (although I am still a rookie in all this and I am not very sure about it). Can it be that a MIDI-MIDI connection (from SV-1 to my Audio Kontrol1) would be a better solution anyway? And after all, is it even possible to reach good performance with Maschine as a plug-in played via MIDI keyboard?

    I am very grateful for any kind of help!
     
  6. nomatter

    nomatter New Member

    Messages:
    12
    I'm not exactly sure how you're connected? 50 seconds is way too long. How many instances of Maschine are you running? Are you familiar with Ableton's buffer/size calibration? I think you should be using one interface with a lower buffer setting...and keeping the buffer setting of maschine around 250...but it depends on your sound card, computer specs (not too much, as ableton is still not 64 bit) and a clearer explanation of your setup.
    ---

    ahh, so you're using two midi interfaces? that's unnecessary. You can definitely control maschine through the virtual inputs. just read the section or watch videos on youtube about setting up midi notes for midi sounds...it's tedious...but can be saved as a template.
     
  7. Manolo87

    Manolo87 New Member

    Messages:
    4
    I think I managed to fix a major problem now. I found out how to adjust the setting of the ASIO driver in my Audio Kontrol 1 window. I set it to high latency which equals a buffer size of 3 ms. Now the response of the MIDI input is satisfyingly quick.
    However, the performance could still improve a lot. If more than one or two sounds are played (also in Maschine as a stand-alone) the sound immediately starts to crackle. Lately, I also focused on the processor load and I realized that the CPU jumps up to 50% only if I open up Maschine (and there are no unnecessary programmes running besides). When I play something it even shows peaks of 80-90%. I think I've read somewhere that 20-25% would be a good workload, right?

    I try to sketch my setup:

    Computer: HP Pavilion dv6 Notebook, Windows 7, AMD Turion II Dual-Core Mobile M500, 2.2 GHz, 4 GB RAM
    Soundcard: Audio Kontrol 1
    Sound Driver: ASIO
    Hardware: Maschine Mikro, Korg SV-1 (serving as a MIDI keyboard), Emu xMIDI USB-to-MIDI cable

    So in fact on my notebook I have 3 USB slots occupied: one with my Maschine Mikro, one with my Audio Kontrol 1, and one with my MIDI cable. Since Audio Kontrol 1 has MIDI in and out as well, first I thought it would be better to use those links rather than occupying a third USB slot with my MIDI cable (it's just that I purchased that cable before the other equipment). But now I think I just have to optimize everything considering buffer size, latency and so on in order to bring that processor load down.
    Because after all I think my notebook should be able to reach a good performance, right? I just somehow don't see how to combine all the different adjustment in Ableton, Maschine and my soundcard or ASIO and how they even interact...
     
  8. nomatter

    nomatter New Member

    Messages:
    12
    It sounds like your setup is okay...but, again: if you're running plug-ins, you'll hear a crackle if your buffer size is too low. for some reason, maschine runs best at about 256 buffer size as a plug-in. as for the midi setup, you really have to find out about that from someone else, as i run a mac. I kinda don't know anything about PC's anymore...

    Again, I think you kinda need to understand the basics of buffer size, latency, and midi before you delve into the maschine DAW integration. it'll be better for you in the long run...i'd try and help, but can't offer any setup instruction as i haven't touched a PC in quite a long time.

    But, it sounds like you need to make sure there is only one instance of Maschine running...i think by pressing "instance" as described by the micro manual...sorry. couldn't be of much help.
     
  9. Manolo87

    Manolo87 New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Don't worry...I appreciate your help! :)
    In my case a buffer size of 256 so far doesn't work out. Around 1000 it starts to get noise-free but of course the latency then isn't really satisfying.
    I think I just have to find out on my own why the hell it uses so much of my CPU and anyhow learn more about the specific reaction of my setup in terms of buffer size, latency, cpu usage, etc.
     
  10. nomatter

    nomatter New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Whoa, 1000? your buffer is way too high. just curious, do you have maschine running in 64 bit mode? Or, do you have very little hard drive space? this is really weird.
     
  11. robbieds

    robbieds NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    491
    Battery on each pad of maschine can do the same thing by changing root note, can someone test and find out I dont have battery. I ve tried to get maschine pads to act like the drum rack pads in this video, but it uses alot of cpu. I hear battery would be a good alternative or other reaktor drum racks/samplers
    ---
    try battery
     
  12. LAWrin

    LAWrin NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    49
    Thank you so much!
     
  13. robertginkgo

    robertginkgo Forum Member

    Messages:
    37
    @robbieds

    "try battery"

    Thanks for the suggestion. I'll play around with Battery more.

    Do you really think that using multiple instances of Battery would use less CPU than routing different Maschine groups to their own channels in Live? Not saying you're wrong, just find it hard to believe.

    Hopefully with the next Live update supporting 64-bit, CPU bog won't be as much of an issue for combinations such as this.
     
  14. Manolo87

    Manolo87 New Member

    Messages:
    4
    No, it's the 32bit .exe (in the x86 file) that's runnin'. So have you experienced differences between 32 and 64 bit concerning the performance? And talking about hard drive space, I got a 280 GB hard drive of which 44 GB are still free. Would be weird if that should be a problem I guess.
     
  15. nomatter

    nomatter New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Yeah, the only solution is to pretty much map your own kits manually. There is no way, so far, to map every preset to your liking (which I kinda thought would be a basic feature). As I'm not really used to drumming with that pad layout, I found it really daunting.

    The, bright side is, it forces you to be very selective about your samples by building your own kits...which kinda defeats the purpose of having a huge library of presets. Anyway, battery is no different. You must manually remap each kit to your liking...but, saving the kits is a feature that maschine still has yet to address.

    as for your latency problem...multiple instances of battery slows down ableton as well....worse than maschine. the only solution i can think of is press shift and control on your hardware and check how many instances of maschine are running in the background. sometimes there are more than one.

    i dunno man...sorry. been kinda bummed with my recent purchase of maschine...right before the half off sale, too. :( ohwell. let's keep positive.
     
  16. SJA

    SJA Forum Member

    Messages:
    21
    Recording midi

    Hi, All my routing works fine but when I try to record midi notes from extrernal instrument plugin I get no midi note being recorded but audio comes through. But can record when it is just midi channel (no external inst). I have the track armed and maschine set to send midi notes. Any help with this. Also once midi notes are in ableton live can you manipulate with midi effects and grooves from library etc.


    Thanks
    ---
     
  17. Ste_clectic

    Ste_clectic NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    169
    Check out this video:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp4CoNxf9_c&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]Maschine 1.5 Sequencing in Ableton - YouTube[/ame]

    And yes, once the midi data is in live you can use midi fx, groove etc.
     
  18. Bosch

    Bosch New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Hi there, this set up is fantastic. Now I can use maschine the way I want to with Lives sequencer. Thanks so much to all involved with this :D:D:D

    One question I have tho, when I load anything that uses Kontakt the midi wont trigger until I select either omni or the midi channel within the Kontakt plug in iinstrument inside maschine. Why is this? all my other plug ins seem to work fine from maschine without any addition tweaking and also does it matter if I use the omni setting or should I select the correct channel? :confused:

    Thanks in advance
     
  19. robbieds

    robbieds NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    491
    I used to want to do this exclusively with maschine, but i love audio drag and drop the best and how easy it is. What is the advantage of tracking out midi ? I would endup freezing the track when im done with it anyways. And messing with the record arm in live can be annoying, so whats midi over audio? Is there a specidic advantage, because I cant think of one.
     
  20. thegoodsir

    thegoodsir New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Hey guys, please help me out here before I go nuts! I have set everything up as St Joe and Mixtape say, with the 8 midi tracks into Live -one for each Maschine group. Now when I play from one of the groups in Maschine, I hear the right sounds, and also they show up on the right track in Live. Then when I hit record, it lays down the midi notes. So far so great. But then I go to playback, and there is no sound (though the equalizers are moving). Weird, so I try one of Live's instruments. Same thing. So i try a youtube video, no problem, sound is on. So I try live's metronome - sound is on! So live is hearing sounds from maschine, it's writing midi notes, its sound seems to be coming out through my fasttrack pro (well, the metronome anyway) but neither the maschine tracks it's laid down nor those from its own instruments have any sound when they play back. I even did St Joe's template all over again, same thing. I guess it must be with the audio and midi/sync options, but I don't know. Please someone help me! I am using a MBP with the latest versions of Live, Maschine, Komplete 8 and an APC40. Thanks!