MASCHINE+ Development Update: September 2021 and 1.3.2 Release

If I pay my sandwich $1400, I definitely expect the chief to come and arrange it as required

 

Many of life's problems can be explained with a good sandwich analogy IMO.

 

If I pay 1400$ for a sandwich I expect the chef to to sleep with me after I finished eating it hahaha

 

I would actually gladly become sandwitch chief if everyone bought my $1400 sandwiches with no complains afterwards

 

Yes, thats correct. And i fully understand what Pattern is and how it relates to Scenes etc. But this issue is a bit different. Its quite strange nobody havent faced it yet. Even NI developers were amused it exists at all. Looks like i'm the only guy on whole planet Earth who actually ever tried to edit something in Maschine+ sequencer. So let me explain in more details:
We have a project. It looks like this:

For the simplicity of explanation Scene 1 with name 'Bridge B1' consists only of patterns N1 in all groups:

Lets imagine we want to do some edits to patterns A3, C4 and H6, for example move, add, delete (it doesnt matter what edits we actually doing) some notes:

To achieve this its quite logical to do following:
1. Deactivate IDEAS mode by pressing IDEAS or CHANNEL or PLUG-IN buttons. Make sure IDEAS(Song) button in top-left button block does not lit. So starting from this moment we assume we are not in IDEAS mode anymore and do not want to assign patterns to current Scene.
2. Edit first pattern (A3) with following actions:
2.1. Press Group A button.
2.2. Press PATTERN.
2.3. Select Pattern 3 by pressing Pad 3.
2.4. Press EVENTS and do actual edits to notes in pattern
3. Edit second pattern (C4) with following actions:
3.1. Press Group C button.
3.2. Press PATTERN.
3.3. Select Pattern 4 by pressing Pad 4.
3.4. Press EVENTS and do actual edits to notes in pattern
4. Repeat similar actions with pattern H6
5. Press IDEAS to get back to ideas mode and see how current scene is looks like now:

Current scene has changed, and in case of massive edits its FUBAR i would say. But our intention was just to add/delete/move some notes in patterns, not to change current scenes active patterns. And there is no way at all to do it without breaking current scene.

And also let me quote NI supports reply:

 

I edit all the time. You're just describing how maschine works. This has nothing to do with M+; it's the same on desktop.

If I want to edit pattern 3, I go to a scene that uses pattern 3. Alternatively, I switch to pattern 3 with the understanding that it's now active in the scene. I'll switch back later.

Frankly, I don't know how you'd want the workflow to occur. Maschine plays either a scene, section or a clip. Sections contains scenes. Scenes contain patterns. You're never just playing a pattern. You can't have a pattern play without a scene (or clip, I guess). How would you want to add/change the patterns in a scene if not by selecting it?

It wouldn't bother me if they had some shift function to allow editing a pattern without making it active. I'd be pissed if they made such a fundamental change of using a shift function to assign a pattern to a scene.

 

Lets imagine such situation: i know i'd like to insert additional kick to some drum track in all bridge sections. Why i have to do additional step by going to scenes which use patterns in question? And before going to every such scene i need to find out what/where are they in case there are more than one...

I dont want to play single pattern. I just want to edit it and then allow it to play in place (scene/section) it belongs to.

 

That original sandwich analogy was awesome.

Im a bit confused... Why do you want to edit patterns other than the ones that are currently playing?
Sounds like you would like a way to silently edit patterns, this is not currently possible, selecting a Pattern activates them in any mode, Ideias or Song, you can never "leave" any of those modes because there aren't any others. This has been requested before but I have a hard time understanding how this would even work... One would be pressing pads that do one thing while a playing pattern is doing something else.

Hum... to be able to hear the edit that you're doing?

Not hearing things while editing might be fine on a DAW if one is using a mouse where you can edit things super fast but on a standalone unless you're talking about super-duper simple edits it's probably a lot faster to just go to the Section you want to edit.

 

Im just following a 15 hours long Maschine+ / Maschine SW tutorial in order to understand it's workflow, structures, logic, tools and features better.
I can only recommend everyone to invest some bucks in getting such a tutorial in one's native language. It's worth and avoids lots of misunderstanding and frustration.
IMO there is no chance to understand M+ in total only by watching hundreds of incoherent YT videos and randomly skipping through the manual.
This recommendation is valid not only for my M+ but also for my (a little bit less complex) Elektron devices.

 

You're in scene 1. It uses pattern 1. You want it to use pattern 2.

In the software, you'd click pattern 2. On the hardware, you'd hit [pattern] and then [pad 2] (or whatever pad it's on).

Now let's assume you you're in scene 1 that uses pattern 1, but you want to edit pattern 2. You can't just change the workflow for assigning a pattern to a scene. How are you expecting to select pattern 2 without affecting scene 1 if you insist on staying in scene 1?

How would you suggest they change it without completely ruining the existing workflow of manipulating the patterns in the current scene? Maybe press and hold to focus without changing? A shift function? We're talking about a workflow that is a fundamental aspect of the design.

You don't need to go to every scene if you've reused the pattern. You go to any single scene that uses the pattern.

You know you want to change the bridge; so you go to the bridge scene or a section using the bridge scene or any scene that uses the bridge pattern. At this point, I'd change the color of the pattern temporarily and then switch back to the song view to see where all I've used it. If needed, I'll duplicate the pattern before changing.

It would be nice to have something that tells me all scenes that use a pattern. I'd also like some way to highlight all patterns not used in scenes. Nothing to do with M+; I'd want that on desktop as well.

I don't want to come off as being argumentative here. That's not my goal. I completely understand where you're coming from and I felt that same confusion when I first started using maschine years ago. I'm concerned NI will get your feedback and make changes that ruin the current workflow. I rarely use the maschine software on my computer now, but when I do, I often find myself accidentally in a clip. I rarely actually want to use a clip. I'd disable them completely if given the option. I'd rather not have more things implemented like clips.

 

If I'm understanding correctly if you want an additional kick in all the bridge sections you can create a new group and have a pattern/clip with the extra kick. If you want to just edit the pattern and allow it to play in place then you want a clip. You might be better served to separate out groups per sound. Not sure if you're doing that now.

For instance, my drum track (usually Group D) is just hi hat and snare/clap. Percussion is Group C and kick/808 is Group B. This allows more flexibility in taking out sounds when it comes to a final arrangement rather than creating duplicate patterns that remove particular sounds.

 

Because:
1. I know what i'm doing (© Kimi Räikkönen)
2. There is no MIDI import in Maschine+ (only using SW)
3. Whatever reason else it could be, please choose by your taste

Yes, exactly. And it would be great to have such ability. I'm not trying to encourage to break current workflow completely, just to extend it a little bit. Some option in preferences for enabling/disabling such behaviour would be enough i suppose. Maschine+ is great hardware and could be potentially used not only as groovebox for 4/4 beats, but also as general purpose hardware sequencer with additional benefits as sampling, instruments, FX etc. And it could much more extend customer base attracting people who prefer to stay away from DAWs. But current workflow is slightly limited (and buggy) for such usecase.

4-D encoder is great and suits such fast editing style quite well. It will be even better after fixing Text Editor bug X1200-1819. And pattern selection sequence (GROUP-PATTERN-Pad-EVENTS) is super fast too.

 

Yes, exactly. I want to edit any pattern without any connection to scene currently selected. And it doesnt mean such ability must break current workflow. For example it could be some option in preferences to switch between current pattern selection behaviour and mode where assigning pattern to scene only possible when ideas mode is activated (IDEAS button is lit). It doest mean it should be done exactly such way - its just a rough idea of how it could potentially be implemented. And i suppose its not my responsibility to think about implementation details - there are people (NI developers, UX specialist etc) who understand much more in Maschine+ workflow and how it could be extended and optimized. And i've already paid $1400 for sandwich ingredients, now its their turn ...

Its becomes more complicated in case i have for example 3 bridges with different patterns, all of them i'd like to edit. Why should i first select scene when all my patterns already in the selected Group and named appropriately. I could just select pattern and edit it without looking for scenes, spending mental resources and breaking flow.

Yes, i completely understand people who advocate current workflow because its perfectly suits their needs and enough for them. But it doesnt mean such workflow cannot be extended and improved to cover more usecases without breaking things which are already settled and much beloved by many users.

 

Question. If you have 3 bridges with different patterns why not just use clips at that point? I'm assuming you're arranging to finish and song and not for live performance? Then the edit will work like you want.

 

This 3-bridge is just example from top of my head. There are more illustrative cases with multiple patterns each used in several places. Perhaps i have to spend more time reflecting on 'Clip' paradigm. I've tried avoiding it as much as possible because every clip is unique and cant be reused without duplication. In my opinion it more convenient to use for things that should overlap multiple patterns, but not just an ordinary replacement for patterns.

 

It sounds like you like to have the option to always change things up (I do too) but clips are unique, so if something repeats many times across the song using Clips means you would have to edit all the clips, one at a time... It would be an even bigger PITA IMO.

OK..... fair enough. For the record I wasn't questioning your desires, I asked because sometimes, depending on why someone wants something there could be a workaround solution.

Sometimes I also would like to edit a non-playing pattern, mostly for performance purposes... Anyway, good luck with the idea/request but don't get your hopes up, people have been asking for way simpler things for ages.

 

Just confirming I went ahead and bought an MPC Live 2 which I feel excited about. Seems to have a lot of well developed features surrounding midi, round robin and retrospective recording.
I'm still not able to sell my Maschine Plus so I may keep my KK keyboard plugged into it to use a sound module!

 

With Kit Maker app you can convert your beloved Maschine Expansions to MPC (minus the synth preset based pads)

 

Why do people engage in this discussion? Just duplicate the specific pattern u want to use for that specific scene, and just edit that specific pattern to what you want, previous patterns remain unchanged so you can switch to the desired pattern whenever. To me it feels like this is overthinking/not understanding the concept of patterns and scenes.

 

Good luck with sequences, tracks, song mode, keygroup programs, 16 levels, drum programs, midi programs, clips, audio tracks, not being able to warp an audio file up or down 1 semitone, pads made of concrete, trying to browse samples, not being able to develop muscle memory changing most stuff, keygroups taking 20 seconds to load to load and even longer to save!