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Maschine Mk3 teardown.

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by D-One, Oct 11, 2019 at 1:44 AM.

  1. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    6,837
    I decided to try to replace one of the encoders of my MK3 since it was really, really loose, I recorded the teardown/disassembly process, well... me figuring out how to disassemble it might be a more appropriate way to say it. Maybe it's interesting for those who are curious like me, it’s a long video with a lot of rambling, mumbling and some silliness, it’s not really serious, I also did some cleaning on the controller.

    The replacement of the encoder itself I’ll save for another date, probably for a few weeks from now so I am 100% sure it worked well over time.
    Obviously opening any gear voids the warranty, don’t try this at home kids! I do it without much electronics knowledge just because... I am an idiot :p

    I’ll attach some pics of the internals for the curious folks, if I forgot something or if anyone has suggestions let me know and I'll try to do it next time.
    If there's a positive response I'll do it for other controllers.

    Here you go:

    **Audio is pretty terrible, sorry for that.
    There's also a ton of mistakes left in because I find them funny, especially when i plugged it in and it didn't turn on so I thought I broke it, or when I forget to put something back in... whatever.. don't be too harsh, I am not a really YouTuber :p
     

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    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019 at 7:42 PM
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  2. BigPictureSound

    BigPictureSound NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    155
    Awesome! Thanks for putting this together. I will watch the entire video as soon as I get a chance but I think you did a great job from the first 15 mins I previewed.

    The camera mic actually isn’t bad. That lapel you used in the beginning sounds really clean though, curious which model it is as I might need to snag one.

    Good work!
     
  3. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    Thanks.
    The voice-over at the start was recorded with a condenser mic, AKG C3000B, my lapel mic is a cheap one I got from Amazon (30$ lol), it's not good but way better than my camera's audio.
     
  4. BigPictureSound

    BigPictureSound NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    155
    At 43:00 I thought that was a synth you had loaded up but it was a motorcycle/moped outside your window haha.

    I am interested as well in seeing how that knob holds up over time
     
  5. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    Yeah... 2nd floor facing the street in a very busy area, super annoying. Look at the bottom of the screen @ 15:40; at 43:00 I forgot. :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019 at 10:12 PM
  6. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

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    1,283
    D1.jpg
     
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  7. kaotik78

    kaotik78 NI Product Owner

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    282
    3:15, that phrase is hilarious!! Thanks for taking the time to break down and film the process for the MK3! The potentiometers look the same as the MK2 so now for next time... I think an order to Mouser electronics is in order!
     
  8. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
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    :thumbsup:
    As I understand it the knob's from the MK2 have the same specs but are just by made by a different company, so it should work.
    Do you have broken or lose knobs on your mk2?
     
  9. kaotik78

    kaotik78 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    282
    Not on my Mk2 but I would like to get some spares for my Mk2/Mk3 if/when they act up. Did you use an Alpha pot in your mk3? Does anyone know what who the new manufacturer is for the new pots in the mk3?

    https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetai...OJ4kSfZg41aSWLc55zFxVXs6XFyc2q3gYyB27TqoGq8Q=
     
  10. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
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    Yes, that's the one I used, they have the Alpha branding on the side, I took the original MK3 pot apart, it has no branding anywhere so I am not sure it's possible to know for sure who makes them, they're different on the inside too.
    It would be cool if NI HW support could give us that info but considering my experience with them I am not even gonna ask.

    While disassembling the pots I noticed that the "strength" (rotation resistance) is an issue of the shaft assembly especifically, either the metal parts that grind together gets warned out or the black ring thing that holds the shaft in place gets lose over time. René must be Unique do you know which one of those theories (if any) is more likely to be true?

    [​IMG]
     

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    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019 at 12:36 AM
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  11. Et_Voila

    Et_Voila NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    54
    Excellent D !

    I was thiking about PM you and bother you with question about that...
    Great !

    Only thing : Yes you're a mumbling bastard ;) You smoke..But that's alcohol my friend, we already talked about that...
    Seriously, take care...

    THANKS D !


    Don't be hard on yourself : your accent is great, audio is way good enough to hear you out properly.
    Swearing all the time too : Come on...I don't recognyze you D..
    Holly What ? Molly: You're a drug addict too. My words, I can't believe what I hear...
    Now totally disapointed : Seriously D ?????
    >>> Thou shalt not take the name of the L. thy Molly in vain...

    No, finally, that's garbish...Sorry, I'm being frank that's all...

    ;)
     
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  12. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,283
    And I want to add the following.
    I have smoked heavily for 40 years, and now my lungs are broken :(,
    they no longer work as they should.
    The oxygen bottles can already be seen in the distance. :eek:

    So yes, if you can stop smoking, do it Diego! :mad:
    If you don't do it, there is no way back!
    And if you use leaded solder, ensure good extraction.
    Do not breathe in the solder smoke. Very harmful to the lungs.


    Doctor René
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019 at 12:38 PM
  13. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,283
    The knob shaft is made from 6mm staff material.
    This is done with a revolver lathe.
    And goes fully automatically.
    Apart from setting the lathe, this must be done by people. (operator)
    With the shaft it is important that the colored part has the correct diameter. See fig.
    If the setting deviates 0.05 mm, the axis becomes 0.1 mm thinner.
    That is therefore always twice the deviation. If his shaft is used, the fit is not good.
    You can recognize this by turning it lightly, and you can also move the knob sideways just like the 4-D encoder.

    Tip:
    As long as the knob still works correctly electronically, replacement is not necessary.
    Also with me there was one knob that turned very lightly.
    I solved this mechanical problem with an O-ring of 3x1.5 mm. See fig.
    The knob therefore has about the same resistance as the good knobs.
    Don't know how long this will last, but as soon as the knob starts to turn lighter, I will report that.

    René
     

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    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019 at 5:03 PM
  14. kaotik78

    kaotik78 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    282
    The shaft is a bit shorter (that's what she said) on the Alpha but looks to be long enough to still attach the cap as you already did. I totally agree that it would be nice for NI HW support to share with us the brand of the part but of course that'll most likely never happen.
     
  15. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,283
    The potmeters are available with an axis length of
    15, 20 and 25 mm. Mouser only has the version with a 15mm shaft length.

    René
     
  16. kaotik78

    kaotik78 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    282
    I recon 20mm would be spot on then but of course Mouser doesn't have them in that length.. go figure. Could the original pot be cleaned up and re-lubricated since the carbon/conductive rings inside may be to blame for the jumping values due to usage over time?
     
  17. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    6,837
    HAHA. I do swear a lot more than I thought tbh, usually, I keep videos clean but since this took like 2 hours of total filming the bad words got concentrated, I didn't like hearing it back either thats why I censored most of it. My original plan was to do a nice voice-over but thats a lot of work for someone that doesn't really take youtube seriously.

    Yeah... I smoke for 18 years now, I really need to quit... and join a gym too.
    Thanks for explaining! I still dont get what happens in the mechanism that causes it to turn so lightly over time, when I got the unit they all felt the same as far as I can remember.
    Yes, it's totally unnecessary to change the knob just because it's lose, I just did it cause I am OCD and also have a child-like curiosity of sorts so it's fun for me to tinker with stuff.
    I tried an o-ring and it did nothing on the MK3, I think mine are thinner than yours tho.

    On the spec sheet, the images for the longer shaft models indicate that they are not threaded, the nuts on the threaded shaft are almost the only thing keeping the pot PCB in place since it only has 1 screw on the left side, this is why I didn't look for the correct sized shaft pots.

    That happens a lot on faders but that's because they are open and dirt gets inside easily, these knobs are really well-sealed so I dont see how that could happen, it was spotless when I opened it, those carbon strips do wear out eventually tho.

    Something I forgot to mention was the Pot I replaced was not only the loser one but occasionally the parameters it controls would sometimes start moving on their own very, very slightly like I mentioned here in your thread, but that went away before I changed the pot which leads me to believe it's was a software/firmware issue.

    Heres a note tho it's not on camera because my battery ran out but the first time I turned the MK3 on all the Knobs were turning on their own like crazy, all! It was the second time I thought I had broken the controller (LOL) but it turned out the Pot-PCB ribbon cable wasn't making proper contact even though visually it looked like it was all the way in, I pushed it in some more and it worked.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019 at 11:28 PM
  18. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,283
    They are also available with M7x0.75 thread according to the specs.
    pot1.PNG
     
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  19. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,283
    Because the shaft is turned 'cold' in the housing by the user, both the shaft and the housing will wear out.
    As a result, the clearance becomes increasingly greater and the shaft will turn lighter and lighter.
    Furthermore, the material used is a soft aluminum alloy that wears out extra quickly.

    René
     
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  20. StarSMASH

    StarSMASH NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    505
    fuckin awesome my dude! I remember you saying NI doesn't really replace small parts of units and you'd have to ship it and wait weeks or some nonsense, so i appreciate the information to give us more autonomy over the situation.

    also, how did you get this shot? camera facing down dangling on a tripod or what? i've tried making similar videos but only have an iphone and can't find the best downward angle.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019 at 9:42 AM