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Maschine + SD Card speed

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Syclick, Oct 2, 2020.

  1. Syclick

    Syclick New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Since the Maschine + running Kontakt can stream off the SD card, is there any sort of guideline as far as what speed of SD card to use? I'd like to get a decent idea before plonking some cash for a decent sized card.
     
  2. ALDREAD

    ALDREAD NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,404
    This is a quote from n.i

    The card included in MASCHINE+ has the following specifications: UHS-I, U3, Native I. Class 10, V30. A1, which are the recommended one. Anything faster would also do the trick
     
  3. Old Mike

    Old Mike NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    486
    Are there any tips and hints about using an usb-stick?

    For what I know SD-Cards are limited in reliability and write-operations.
     
  4. ALDREAD

    ALDREAD NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,404
    The manual is out , not sure if there’s any info in that
     
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  5. Dstep ATL

    Dstep ATL NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    65
    I don’t think usb drives are supported at all yet. I may be wrong.
     
  6. jef

    jef NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    33
    Hi all! Working on a video, and I think I can confirm that my SD cards are not working properly compared to the one the M+ comes with. Audio recording glitches when using any other card other than the one it comes with. Pretty sure that is the problem...
    Other cards say SD XC I V30 U3 C10 170 MB/s. (and other cards that are lower than those numbers all give me the same recording glitch).
    M+ card that comes is Micro SD XC I U3 C10 V30. So I'm not sure why the above card isn't working. the MB/s are not listed on the M+ card, but that might be it?

    So my cheap 256GB card aint gonna work!
    Post back if y'all have a high capacity card that is working well, let us know the numbers on it!
     
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  7. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,268
    This is the equivalent of what the SD that came with M+ :
    https://www.amazon.de/SanDisk-Speicherkarte-V30-Zertifiziert-Generalüberholt-Schwarz/dp/B07BSCJQHY
    It's cheap and slow.

    I tried a few and they all worked fine, I have a 95 mb/s Sandisk Extreme Pro which is noticeably faster than the one that came with Mas+. This one:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-Extreme-SDXC-Memory-Class/dp/B01J5RHD58/

    I was reading on a photography/video forum that SD cards above 95 mb/s (especially ones at 170 mb/s) use some sort of technology to get around the speed limitations on UHS-I, so they might not be supported by all devices, (generally this super high speed is only needed for very hi res cameras or cameras that shot video in RAW) on a computer, for example, you need a SanDisk special reader for full speed. Source: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4360809
    So... It's unlikely that super speed UHS-I (if 170mb/s) will work at the advertised speed, or even work properly. (?)

    UHS-II has higher speed ratings, 300 mb/s+ but I am not sure if Maschine+ supports those either or if it's the reader is even USB3 (or some sort of pcie equivalent) to handle 300 mb/s. (usb-2 won't support that much speed.). I tried asking NI directly but didn't get a satisfactory answer; the best I got was a recommendation for this one.

    Btw this is the difference in speed between the Ni card and mine, tested on a USB 3.0 Reader.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
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  8. bobbyduracel

    bobbyduracel NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    442
    Thanks for sharing the tests! Do you know of any reason we should avoid a larger size SD? Would they have any weird limits with reading a 1TB unit? I think 256 or 512 would be plenty, but as they add more compatible expansion packs I'd hate to have to re-purchase cards when capacity runs low.
     
  9. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,268
    No problem.
    TBH i never heard of an SD bigger than 1 TB anyway... By that time I expect external hds to be supported.
     
  10. jef

    jef NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    33
    Thanks D-One, I just tried some more tests, and it might have been because I was hot swapping cards... (plugging them in without restarting the M+... the thing they tell you not to do in the manual!)

    Just restarted and things worked as they should!
     
  11. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,268
    No problem. If you're doing a video i'd love to see the speed difference of scan time of the original SD VS a fast SD, especially if a lot of expansions are installed, or editing big samples. I am considering buying one of those 170mb/s or a 300mb/s cards but I want to be sure it's worth it... I hate slow devices.
     
  12. imagevoice

    imagevoice NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    51
    Transferring Samples from the PC over USB directly to the SD-Card in the Maschine+ is sooo slow - just 2 to 10MB/s max. Can you confirm that? Dont have a card-reader or a better card right now... Also installing expansion takes hours (not really hours but it feels like that).
     
  13. bobbyduracel

    bobbyduracel NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    442
    From my SSD in OSX it did not take long to move samples, but I only moved a small folder. The install process for expansions did take some time & I have 1gig internet... the server is likely quite overwhelmed given the release of K13CE via download + the Maschine standalone units on the market.
     
  14. Old Mike

    Old Mike NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    486
    Cannot confirm that. Had about 80-100mb/sec depending on sample and file size. Copying many files with small sizes always takes longer and is slower
     
  15. imagevoice

    imagevoice NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    51
    downloadspeed and ni-servers are fine, but installing takes long. I also copy my samples from a fast 970 Evo plus via usb - but 6-10MB/s is even very slow for a usb2-connection.
     
  16. imagevoice

    imagevoice NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    51
    hmm...weird - 80-100 is what I´ve expected :-/.
     
  17. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,268
    :O WHAT? How the heck are you getting those speeds with smaller files?? Especially with the original slow SD card.

    Yes, if I use NI's SD inside M+ connected over USB I don't even reach 8MB/s, it's super-duper slow.

    I went to windows to test it out, copied the \Maschine 2 Factory Library\Samples\Drums from the computer to the SD card, lots of small files, 2GB.
    NI SD:
    USB 3 card reader - I get a max of 28 mb/s but it dips down to less than 1mb/s often. Slow but usable.
    [​IMG]

    With Mas+ connected via USB - A max of 6mb/s with not that many dips - Slow as heck...
    [​IMG]

    My Sandisk SD:
    USB 3 card reader - max of 40 MB/s and never dips lower than around 6 mb/s.
    With Mas+ connected via USB - Max of 9MB/s, dips to 3MB/s.
    Forgot the screenshots for those, sorry. So.. for 30$ the Sandisk Extreme Pro and a 3.0 card reader could be worth it for people who move files around often.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
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  18. jef

    jef NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    33
    OK, more testing... I'm pretty sure it's down to my project having too many tracks and the CPU being too high. Just tried recording again on my big project and i get the same glitch when recording. I then restart (something I didn't do in my last tests) before loading an empty project, try recording, and it works perfectly. So I don't necessarily think it's the speed of the card that is the issue. Definitely a glitch that I need to get to the problem solvers at NI! re-shooting my vid today...
     
  19. Old Mike

    Old Mike NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    486
    Oh yes, I am sorry. It was a rar-file, not the small ones. o_O
     
  20. imagevoice

    imagevoice NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    51
    Thx to the "open sunday"-shopping over here I could get a new "hopefully" faster sd-card and an USB3.0 Card-Reader (up to UHC-II) today.

    First I want to get an UHC-II with 260MB/s writing speed but 155€ for 128GB? o_O So I go for the SanDisk Extreme Pro UHC-I 256GB for 70€ because I dont think the M+ can use the speed of an UHC-II card.

    26e0384b-15b3-4045-9097-b8754c0f23d2 (2).jpg

    TEST RESULTS:
    Copying files from PC (I did a backup of the files from the original card first) via front side USB 3.0 port I got to 83MB/s writing from the pci-e ssd for most of the time. Sometimes with a lot of small wav-files it drops down to 6MB/s - but that was just once for some seconds.

    The rescan with 56GB installed on the new card takes 50 seconds.

    The direct transfer from pc to m+ is now always over 8MB/s up to 10MB/s - so its much better on average speed :thumbsup: With the original card I had 2-8MB/s but most of the time at 2-3MB/s :thumbsdown: Not much better but for smaller libraries or single samples its ok.

    BUT NOW THE BEST:

    Previewing longer samples is now flawlessly and extemely fast - like in controller-mode with the maschine-software on pc. With the orignal card the preview takes a bit sometimes. Maybe 500ms to a second before the preview starts - what was kind of sad and not the expierience I expected or were used to from the mk2 with the maschine-software on the pc.

    FINALLY:
    Now I´m happy :D
     
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