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Maschine Studio vs Ableton Push

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by digweedgr, Oct 2, 2013.

  1. puzzlefactory

    puzzlefactory NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,270
    Yeah, I do actually have Audiomodders Komplete/Maschine pack. I was referring more to "out of the box", "one or the other" scenarios.

    Basically, Ableton needs to hire better sound designers for their factory library. ;)
     
  2. de wouzer

    de wouzer NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,660
    True..... but the core of Ableton is extraordinary good..... and it's is much more interesting to me to have a perfect DAW, and get my Syths from an other company (like my Amazing Elektron Analog Keys).... and then use ableton. In stead of 1000 very nice VST's which off course cannot compete with the 20 times more expensive analog Keys.... and Maschine software that is lacking essential components to be called a DAW.
     
  3. puzzlefactory

    puzzlefactory NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,270
    Oh yeah. Like I said before, I think Ableton is by far the superior software.

    I'm purely talking about "out of the box" presets here, so that you can achieve that kind of fast music composition demonstrated in the video Spazoo posted.
     
  4. scheffkoch

    scheffkoch NI Product Owner

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    579
    ..i used to work with maschine and mainstage but couldn't stand maschine's cpu problems and mainstage's non-ability to do multitrack recordings anymore so i jumped on ableton + push when they had this 20% discount...and i'm super happy right now!...i can use multiple reaktor, kontakt, absynth, fm8 instaces within ableton with no cpu hickups + also maschine as a au plugin works flawless...i still prefer to use maschine and all the expansions for the "drum part" of my setup but ableton + push as a host/ multitrack daw for komplete is awesome...ableton + push + komplete + Maschine = musicians' heaven!...
     
  5. taoyoyo

    taoyoyo NI Product Owner

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    1,603
    One of the areas Maschine is ahead of the pack for me (bearing in mind I'm using the Studio controller) is with Sound/VST template creation and editing.

    I can create custom templates for my plug-ins across multiple pages, Sectionalize and organize (I can leave parameters blank to aid with this, something that can't be done with Push/Live), add multiple section Headers, rename parameters to my liking and then once I've done and saved as an Instrument quickly navigate to the page I want (using Navigate Page Mode) when editing.

    It's not perfect (some parameters in third party plug-ins are only accessible from the default mapping and as there's no way currently to copy/paste individual parameters it can be impossible to create your perfect mapping from scratch) but it's better for patch creation than the current Live/Push (No section headings or parameter spacing) and Bigwig/Push (Can do parameter Spacing and a Single Page header but no rename of parameters) combinations and although Kore allows for further creative options and adds buttons into the equation (far better than having to move a knob from on to off) there are a lot fewer digits available on the Kore Controller compared to Studio, which makes Parameter naming and reading a lot easier.

    I also think the Browser in Maschine is a lot more robust and quickly navigable than currently available in Push (where User patches are always at the bottom of the list. You can organize the User area just how you want in Maschine).

    Having said this I would not give up Push either. :)

    EDIT: The other feature which would be really handy to create the perfect user mapping would be the ability to move the position of Pages around.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2015
  6. Joca

    Joca NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    994
    You can edit Live's resources folder so that the user content heads the list, but you have to redo the process after every Live update.
     
  7. Joca

    Joca NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    994
    I am sure that there are VSTis that can compete with A4 soundwise, and that's from someone who is thinking of buying one (that or a Monomachine, can't decide plus the Electribe has me wondering if it is necessary to spend so much).
     
  8. theinvis

    theinvis NI Product Owner

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    5,069
    what if neither of them came with any sounds, just the instrument?
     
  9. Spazoo

    Spazoo NI Product Owner

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    1,732
    if neither came with any sounds then i'd choose push/live because it works better with external gear and that's where i'd be getting most of my sounds.
     
  10. Joca

    Joca NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    994
    So how do you select your external gear using Push?
     
  11. Spazoo

    Spazoo NI Product Owner

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    1,732
    i start new live sets with a project template that contains a track for each of my external instruments (tr8, tb3, system1, fantom, blofeld, jp8080) multitimbral instruments are actually several tracks that are grouped together. commonly used patches/presets are stored in my user library as midi clips that contain the program change info but no note info. all of the instruments are sound modules so i play them with the push controller, except for the system 1. and now that i have learned to fold/unfold groups from the push controller i'm not reaching for the computer very often.
     
  12. Joca

    Joca NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    994
    OK, though I could argue that it is using default templates as opposed to Push which provides the ease of use plus you can't select your midi clips via Push. Have you found a way to use Push's encoders to control your external instruments?
     
  13. puzzlefactory

    puzzlefactory NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,270

    Difficult question to answer.

    Komplete has better instruments by far but Lives are easier to use and have little interesting quirks (like operators additive feature and samplers emu style morph filters and fm synth engine).

    Lives biggest sound design feature is Racks, with endless stacked instruments and parallel effect chains, but for some reason you can't create racks from the Push controller. Which is kind of Push all over really. There's so much of Live that's been excluded from the controller. You don't have access to all of Lives browser, in particular the third party plugin section.. You can't load groups of tracks, or templates or audio files (although bizarrely you can create blank audio tracks. you just can't load anything into them or route the inputs and outputs from the controller). There's other things too but i can't be bothered to list them all now.

    Saying that though, Push's workflow does make it easier to go from silence to a finished track. The fact that it has an arrange page which you can record to and as i mentioned in a previous post, the way the duplicate button works (by duplicating the scenes AND the clips (patterns) in the scene with a single press) is a really great workflow. I also think Lives "bread and butter" effect processors are better than NI's.
     
  14. OY3NOH

    OY3NOH Active Member

    Messages:
    249
    quite OT here, but maybe it is interesting for others as well: HOW?

    I searched google but found nothing which works in 9.1.7? (select track, hold select button - does not work with my drumrack here...)
     
  15. puzzlefactory

    puzzlefactory NI Product Owner

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    2,270
    It doesn't work with drum racks.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Spazoo

    Spazoo NI Product Owner

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    1,732
    it doesnt work with drum racks grrrrrrr
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. Spazoo

    Spazoo NI Product Owner

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    1,732
    true. probably 90% of my performaces are pre-programmed. i just improvise over the top. i've found max for live devices that allow me to tweak the tr8, tb3, jp and blowfeld instrument parameters via push. the only thing i can't control is the fantom.

    i'm using a 32x32 audio interface so all of the instruments are routed into live for additional audio processing. so i can use push to tweak audio effects and plugins on all instruments.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2015
  18. Jiloo

    Jiloo NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,272
    Would not agree to that. I know some artist using only soft synths in his productions. 100% soft, no hardware gear except of midi controller and he is famous in d'n'b scene. And there are others relying only on hardware. It's just the matter of preference.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. taoyoyo

    taoyoyo NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,603
    .... The Unfold option works with Group Tracks but not with Drum Racks.

    EDIT: (Arse... I'm late to mention this! ;) )
     
  20. de wouzer

    de wouzer NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,660
    I know Noisia only uses VST too
    I even think most dub artists make their music with a mouse, a computer-keyboard, some VST's and a daw