1. IMPORTANT:
    We launched a new online community and this space is now closed. This community will be available as a read-only resources until further notice.
    JOIN US HERE

Solved Massive X ever gonna be compatible with Apple Silicon

Discussion in 'MASSIVE + MASSIVE X' started by Colin Hauser, May 21, 2021.

  1. Flowingglower

    Flowingglower New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Can only agree. Ableton Live just runs almost flawlessly on Rosetta 2 (=emulation). My M1 laptop equals my 2019 iMac with 8-core Intel CPU and 64GB of RAM, when it comes to performance. That was a $ 3,300 iMac (which I sold since.)

    And we are comparing native vs. emulation here :) The M1 MacBook only was $900 in comparison. Can't wait for the M1X MacBooks in a couple of weeks. The chipset is supposed to perform 2x as good. 14,000 (M1X) vs 8,000 (M1) in multi-core benchmark.

    Never did regret the move to M1. not one day :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Goon

    Goon NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    884
    I recently changed from Win10 Ryzen PC to new M1 Mac Mini, runs Ableton 11 well, much smoother than my old Win 10 machine. And havent found any plugins yet (except Massive X) which I cannot run. My first Mac and the performance is good. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Jeremy E Shaw

    Jeremy E Shaw NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    328
    Yeah I don't see it. 30 year net/sysadmin here, custom builder, production engineer, etc. I've seen the YouTube videos. I've also seen professional hardware / tech critics review it, I've seen build performance (inside IDEs) on it, and I've read a bit about various DAWs and VST/plugins. It isn't where it needs to be right now, and the emulation of x86 is enough of a hit for me to not recommend this to clients - as it stands now. The idea is that over time this is supposed to improve, so I'll check back.

    It feels like expectations are misaligned, but that's just my decades of experience talking.
     
  4. Flowingglower

    Flowingglower New Member

    Messages:
    17
    And you're right. I wouldn't recommend it to any clients. For sure not if they are dependant on specific hardware or plugins to run. I am completely doing this as a hobby, second job/profession. So it's an easy thing for me to explore/test.
     
  5. JonnyMac78

    JonnyMac78 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    36
    I’m not disputing your years of experience mate, simply sharing my personal usage over the last few months.
    I have no agenda to promote Apple M1, and have no cause to lie to you. I accept that it’s a new technology, and will take time before it’s power is realised. This is a music production forum though, and my experience is more than legitimate for other forum users. I use my machine primarily for music and light video/photography stuff.

    I have successfully used plugins from NI, Arturia, Softube, Plugin Alliance, Fabfilter, Mathew Lane, Korg and Izotope as well as Ableton Live 10 and 11. I’m able to open projects I’d started on my i7 MBP and unfreeze tracks that were killing the cpu on my old machine.
    My Adobe stuff has also run much better, and since they’ve added native M1 support for most of their stuff, the speed is ridiculous.
    Like I say, you’re entitled to form an opinion based on what you know, however, I do feel that your calling into question the personal experience of M1 users based on your experience. Your experience doesn’t include actually using an M1 machine though. Whether you like it or not, M1 is as powerful as machines costing several times as much. I was hesitant to upgrade but needed a new machine for the studio. I took a punt, knowing I would probably wait for it to be 100% reliable, but it’s far exceeded my expectations of its £1000 price tag.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Tony Jones

    Tony Jones Active Member

    Messages:
    435
    I’ve only 45 years IT experience, but to me the M1 was the right purchase at the time. I’ve no idea what being old has to do with it, though!
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  7. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,056
    Maybe I am wrong, but I have read somewhere that Rosetta translates x86 code to M1 code on each startup (or even on the first run) and since then it runs natively. So no emulation. Of course, the resulting code might not be as optimal as native M1 code.

    M1 might be as powerfull as Apple machines costing several times more. In PC world one may have similar computer for less money, more RAM and more disk space. For example mini PC based on AMD Ryzen APU, say Ryzen 7. (I have chosen low power CPU, for fair comparison. But one may choose some of AMDs stronger CPUs and it would outperform M1 several times....)

    M1 is the good CPU, but not the miracle, just another good CPU of many.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  8. chk071

    chk071 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    180
    I don't know much about coding, except for a little bit of website scripting, but, nope. That can't be how it works.

    Of course there'll be some performance loss with Rosetta. Just like with any extra emulation layer.
     
  9. chk071

    chk071 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    180
    M1 is comparable with low to mid tier desktop CPU's. I don't know how much the cheapest M1 Mac costs, but, you can build a 1.000 € desktop PC which runs circles around it, in terms of performance. M1 is a mobile CPU, created for a good compromise between performance and energy consumption. Granted, a pretty good effort. But, the tales about it being the most powerful CPU, from the Apple camp, are pure nonsense.

    Apple really did a good job converting any of their customers to a true fan of the brand. They're very good at that. Just like they're very good at pulling your money out of your pocket over things which cost a fraction of what they ask elsewhere.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,056
    Rosetta 2 is the both, emulator and "translator". For the emulator mode there will be performance loss (translation is done on the fly), but in the translator mode there will be no or very, very small performance loss.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_(software)
    "In addition to the just-in-time (JIT) translation support, Rosetta 2 offers ahead-of-time compilation (AOT), with the x86-64 code fully translated, just once, when an application without a universal binary is installed on an Apple silicon Mac.[9]"
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. JonnyMac78

    JonnyMac78 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    36
    I’d love to see your €1000 shopping list for a PC which ‘runs circles’ around an M1.
    We get it, you don’t like Apple, but this statement is delusional.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. chk071

    chk071 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    180
    Nothing special in there really. Just add a random mid tier desktop CPU, and you're there.
    Pretty ironic.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. Goon

    Goon NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    884
    Incorrect statement, cheapest M1 is the mac mini @£699 and it blew my Ryzen PC build away easily. Pound for pound the M1 is a good chip, with a suprising power to performance considering the money :)
    I'm far from a Apple fanboy exactly the opposite as this is my first Apple product, and its changed my perspective of them. Just turn the M1 on and it works.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. chk071

    chk071 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    180
    Without knowing exactly which kind of Ryzen you had, is impossible to say anything about that. The new generation of mid tier Intel's will definitely run circles around a M1, especially when it comes to single core, which is very important for audio.

    Seriously, there's not really much to discuss about it. M1 is a typical mobile CPU, which has a fine performance/power consumption, nothing which can complete with desktop CPU's. There's a reason Apple still uses Intel for its Mac Pros.

    Gesendet von meinem Pixel 3a mit Tapatalk
     
  15. JonnyMac78

    JonnyMac78 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    36
    I’m sorry, but you’re just wrong. The M1, which remember is only the first generation, runs the Intel Mac Pros (and Ryzen 9 cpus) pretty close. Not quite as powerful, admittedly, but for the price, the difference is tiny. It’s not just about the cpu, the efficiency of integrated RAM is a huge advantage.
    Newer Mac Pros will have 2nd or 3rd generation M series chips, and they will improve considerably on what’s already been achieved.
     
  16. Goon

    Goon NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    884
    Your just plain wrong. its ok you dont like Apple, but the M1 is a good performer plain and simple, and its far from a typical mobile CPU as you put it. There's a reason why Apple are bringing out more M1 & less Intel sytems and following up further M1 developments.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,056
    It depends what Ryzen...... And what generation of Ryzen..... ZEN 3 Ryzen 7 APU is slightly superior to M1. And one may use stronger ZEN3 CPUs....

    And saying that M1 almost compares AMD Zen3 Ryzen 9 is pure nonsense.

    M1 is OK, but it has very limited memory size. Cannot imagine use it for bigger Kontakt libraries like Stadivari Violin.....

    Sure, for example more profit for Apple.... But there are also other benefits.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Goon

    Goon NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    884
    I go from my experience with both systems, and without doubt M1 beat the Ryzen I had.. Price to power ratio has shifted to the M1's.
     
  19. JonnyMac78

    JonnyMac78 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    36
    My 16gb Mac Mini runs all of the Cremona Quartet just fine.
    The comparison is not nonsense, take a minute to Google and you’ll find the information quite easily for yourself. https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-apple_m1-1804-vs-amd_ryzen_9_5900x-1748
    And remember, we’re talking about a cpu that costs as much as an entire M1 system…
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2021
  20. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    19,938
    It can be whatever CPU it wants, 16 GB of RAM is just not enough for serious work with big templates.

    I have 64 GB now and I want my next machine to have 128 GB. And I know it won't be Apple, because at that point I might as well buy a new car instead with the way they're pricing things. :D