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Solved Massive X ever gonna be compatible with Apple Silicon

Discussion in 'MASSIVE + MASSIVE X' started by Colin Hauser, May 21, 2021.

  1. JonnyMac78

    JonnyMac78 NI Product Owner

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    “Serious work” doesn’t have to involve big templates of Kontakt libraries. Just because your work involves big templates doesn’t make it more ‘serious’ than someone else’s.
    16 gb of unified ram on an m1 chip is plenty for loads of people making a serious living
    making music. Yes, if it exceeds 16gb it will page it to ssd, but until then it is so much quicker than traditional ram. Even when it does page, the reduction in speed isn’t as bad as you might think.
     
  2. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Well-Known Member

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    19,938
    Whatever, I know I need 64 gigs and not 16. And I don't take paging to SSD as an answer.
     
  3. JonnyMac78

    JonnyMac78 NI Product Owner

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    36
    I wish I was as cool as you.

    Seriously though, I know your background and work and it is genuinely cool what you do. You don’t half come off as a bit arrogant on these forums though. It’s not a good look.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
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  4. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Well-Known Member

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    I just don't have a lowpass filter on my thoughts. :) I'd rather tell what's on my mind without putting some makeup on it. Some days are better than others of course - it's like that for everyone. :)

    But in other words: I know what I want from my machine. Apple isn't making that (especially not for the coin I'd like to pay). That's all there's to it.
     
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  5. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

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    1,056
    Three times more multicore power for Ryzen 9 vs. M1 does not seem to me to be similar CPU power.... Compare it with Ryzen 7 APU 5700G. It is still a bit stronger than M1, costs less, consumes a bit more power than M1, but still great comparing to Intel....

    How many instances of Cremona Lib you may run. For serious work one needs 10-15 instances, at least.....
     
  6. JonnyMac78

    JonnyMac78 NI Product Owner

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    36
    No, but as pointed out, audio typically requires single core cpu speeds - we’re still talking about audio, aren’t we? The zero fan noise is a nice side benefit as well.

    I’d be surprised if I got 10-15 Cremona tracks, but will do a test and update whatever the results - just for full transparency.
    I’m not making orchestral stuff, so usually only use 2-3 tracks if I’m using it at all, again, just for transparency as to my usage.
    I’m fed up of arguing, let’s keep it nice.
     
  7. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

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    1,056
    Well, single core is important. To certain limit. Multicore is also important....

    But let's compare comparable. M1 vs. Ryzen 7 5700G. It is mobile CPU for standard (non-mobile) PC. It gives similar single core as M1 and almost double as much in multicore. One may have as much as 64 GB RAM, SSD as big as needed.
    https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-apple_m1-vs-amd_ryzen_7_5700g

    One may put it in one of those sleek Mini PC housings.
    https://www.asrock.com/nettop/AMD/DeskMini X300 Series/index.asp
    https://www.asrock.com/nettop/AMD/Jupiter X300/index.asp
     
  8. JonnyMac78

    JonnyMac78 NI Product Owner

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    36
    Just had a little play, and it was sketchy at times after duplicating tracks (which seemed to settle down after a few seconds), but I managed to get up to 23 tracks playing different Cremona instruments with no pops and clicks. The Strad Cello was most problematic, seems to use more cpu, but that could be because it was starting to page ram to SSD or something. But to do 10-15 is achievable, depending on what each instrument is doing - I was just feeding midi output from Scaler 2 to test it.
    I’m quite surprised, I expected to struggle much more, much sooner.
     
  9. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

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    1,056
    One Stradivari instrument takes around 2 GB of memory. 15 instruments would be around 30 GB. Hard to fit it into 16 GB....

    So it must be swapping to SSD. And, if yes SSD may die sooner or later.... And SSD is soldered, not replacable,

    But, OK let's conclude M1 may run 10-15 Stradivaris.
     
  10. JonnyMac78

    JonnyMac78 NI Product Owner

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    36
    It might not be loading the whole instrument to ram at all (which of course isn’t necessary, albeit preferable if you’ve got a whole orchestra in your template). It might be reading it from the disk.
    Just wanted to share my findings, rather than prove a point. Of course, if I was loading DIVA, I could go crazy…
     
  11. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Well-Known Member

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    19,938
    Of course it's mostly streamed from the disk, but Cremona instruments have a LOT of samples, and even when streaming form the disk you need to have a chunk of each sample preloaded into RAM for fast access. This can amount to 2 GB for sure with large sample counts. And that's only the samples RAM requirement, there's also group and zone and modulator and effects memory that's needed (and isn't shared between instances of instrument loaded), voice memory for DFD streaming and playback, and so on... Expert->Engine tab will give more info.
     
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  12. chk071

    chk071 NI Product Owner

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    180
    Let's put it like this: Single core is important. To have many cores is very helpful.

    There are a few plugins making use of multicore, but, I'm really not sure how well that works. As far as I know, at least some DAW's utilize a single core for plugin chains on a track.
     
  13. chk071

    chk071 NI Product Owner

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    180
    Yeah, there is a reason: Because they want their devices to be as slim and silent as possible. :) Apple is like a perfumery. It all has to be aesthetically pleasing. That's their forte. And, the prices are accordingly.
     
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  14. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Well-Known Member

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    19,938
    The plugin does its own CPU management, spreading processing in multiple threads, which is then joined into a final buffer that is sent to the DAW on the thread it's calculating the track on.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Goon

    Goon NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    884
    M1 mac is cheaper than some of those Ryzen/Intel CPU's alone. We get you maybe dont like Apple, I own and use both Win PC and Mac, (having only recently dipped into Mac World), and in my short experience with the M1, its a whole lot better & slicker. Getting better latency results with M1 than I did using Asio drivers for my Focusrite 18i20 2nd gen, overall system performance is whole lot snappier on M1.
     
  16. chk071

    chk071 NI Product Owner

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    180
    Who is "we"? And why do "you" (which means multiple you's) think you know that I don't like Apple? And why would you think that I don't like Apple?

    So many questions, so little time in life.

    Anyway, it's not like someone just snips his finger, and suddenly begins to dislike something. It usually happens for a reasons. To give you a slight nudge into the right direction. I actually even gave you some reasons, but, you still seem to think this is like Kindergarten.
     
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  17. Goon

    Goon NI Product Owner

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    884
    Maybe try reading your own past comments, its obvious, but then again, you have those special blinkers on...TTFN & ignored :)
     
  18. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

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    1,056
    Maybe, but those are more powerful than M1. It may happen that bicycle costs less than one wheel of Tesla car. So, what?

    One can make a bit stronger PC using Ryzen costing less than M1 computer. Simply put, M1 computer is fast and cheap just in Apple world. In PC world it is just less than average computer. Not bad, but nothing special. Apple did good job, no question. But not a miracle, a computer of dreams.
     
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  19. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

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    1,056
    Well, one needs the both. Decent single core power to meet the higdest possible load of single core and multicore power that meets overall computing power needed.

    Deficiency in either of them results in dropouts...
     
  20. Andrew Stirling

    Andrew Stirling NI Product Owner

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    53
    It’s more than that though. You actually seek out conversations which aren’t really relevant to you in order for you to voice your views on Apple in a way which is essentially off topic.

    It’s the equivalent of buying tickets for a gig for a band you don’t like simply so you can walk around telling all the paying punters why you think their taste in music is ****.
     
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