Massive X Feedback Area

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by René must be Unique, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

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  2. Reefius

    Reefius NI Product Owner

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  3. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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  4. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

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    Does VST3 have improved performance or any new features? Wondering what the benefit of it is over VST2.

    I want VST3 (or AU) support in Komplete Kontrol, but only because Roland Cloud’s Mac plugins only support AU and VST3, so I can’t load them in KK to set up improved controller mapping. I don’t know why they don’t offer VST2 versions for Mac (the Windows versions support VST2).
     
  5. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    Yes. In a nutshell VST3 basically turns itself off when it detects no Audio, for stuff with long silence gaps it saves some CPU as it won't process a bunch of silence. It can also communicate with other VST3 plugins, for example, an EQ with a built in a spectrum analyzer can display more than 1 track on the same single instance, each with a different color, cool for EQ matching, or setting opposite eq curves, etc... Other advantages are not so significant.
     
  6. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

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    Ah, I guess the cross communication would be nice for things like Softube Console 1 and Izotope Neutron (which I think currently rely on running a sidecar app to handle the cross communication).
     
  7. Uwe303

    Uwe303 NI Product Owner

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    And one thing I also like about vst3 is if you have a long note but you loop an area where the note already runs you will hear it.

    Uwe
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
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  8. Supercreative

    Supercreative NI Product Owner

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    Hey Community!
    One more website to post things...(?) :eek::mad: I ignored that page so far.
    Found a good feedback today:


    Even I like Massive X, Sadowick is IMO totally right.
    And where the hell is the manual????

    Despite these very annoying issues, I was able to create some really cool patches out of Massive X.
    Updates must come very soon...
    IMO, this release has been totally screwed up (again). Very sad.
     
  9. Supercreative

    Supercreative NI Product Owner

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  10. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    You have to admit he does rather have a point.......how many own goals do NI have to score to win a football match?

    I've only had a slight play with it so far and I do think it's good but it is nowhere ready for release in so many ways.The negative publicity from this isn't helpful to anyone.

    There's a huge thread at KVR that takes some ploughing through and has now been locked.
    https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=510962
     
  11. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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  12. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    "They Fallout 76'ed us" this cracked me up, i enjoyed the critique but wish I wasn't ear raped in the process or at least was invited for dinner first, regardless, I subscribed.

    It looks like the there's a lot more knowledgeable synth Youtubers out there that have critical but objective content unlike hw/controller youtubers that just say everything is amazing and make content that feels like advertisements.
     
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  13. loachm

    loachm NI Product Owner

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    That warrior sound guy has a point. It is understandable, if someone says, that this insanity in unprecedented, which it is and certain oscillator behaviours are indeed questionable. But it's a problem, if indignation, even justified one, can cloud the judgement. So what's not unprecedented for Youtube standards, unfortunately, and questionable as well is complaining about certain things while revealing, that you don't have a lot of knowledge of the thing you're talking about.

    It is correct, the envelope graphics in their current state don't have any function and are a waste of space (if they're not doing anything - but I suppose, they will). However, if someone is saying, he is ruining his sound, because he does not know, what each part of a properly labelled envelope module does, unless there is a visual feedback, then it is questionable, if he can claim to be a person to judge the quality of a synth.

    Even in its current state Massive X has more use to me than watching such a video (or even considering listening to Sadowick for 40 minutes, explaining that the synth is not done, yet - it is obvious, get a life, dude!). They f*cked it up, no doubt, but what would have happend, if it hadn't been released in June? They admitted it and they'll better fix it. But the synth itself is already very capable and it'll surely be improved. Anybody remembering the release version of DIVA and its CPU-load - miraculously, it could be improved by 40% with v1.1. These things happen all the time, so let's see, what Massive X 1.1 will bring.
     
  14. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    I agree but then again there's the argument of what the competition offers as far as ease of use goes and that includes visual feedback in today's age, even when that feedback is gimmicky and possibly pointless for Pros. This is not a synth for the elite, it's quite a commercial one.

    While criticizing something it's common to mix in a few things that are due to lack of knowledge, if its a couple it's OK in my eyes, if it's too many it totally invalidates the critique, I dont think the latter is the case here, these folks dont seem like beginners. No one should need to be an absolute synth genius to understand simple concepts that can be illustrated thru modern UI's and that people have grown used to from using other competing products.

    You prefer youtubers that only say how amazing everything is? "wow massive x is finally here, its great, so good, yeah love it...NI did it again" those vids piss me off. These are the people influencing a whole new generation of musicians, beginners that look for tutorials, and whether or not they should buy a product. That comes with a responsibility of honesty that 90% doesn't have, looks like they are scared of pissing off the brand.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  15. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

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    Hardware controller “review” videos are the worst. Half the time it’s just sitting on a table and they don’t even plug the damn thing in. Pretty sure that whole racket is just about doing the bare minimum to get free hardware. I’m not sure if some of those people even make any music.

    Some of the “after a year, do I still like it?” ones are okay. At least by that point they should have learned how it all works and discovered things they like and don’t like about it.
     
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  16. Uwe303

    Uwe303 NI Product Owner

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    Sooo the funny oscillator guy isn't able to mesure an oscillator correctly!! If I wanna do that in case of massive x I have to directly connect the oscillator to the output, I've done it and a sine was just a sine!! That simple is it. I'm OK with valid points and criticism but this is bullshit.
    But some other points are valid e.g. envelopes not showing its state (even if I don't need it I have ears and 3 complex envelops where I can paint it.... ) , no manual - yes that's a point

    Oh and of course he is right about the shape it influences also release shape but i guess its by design but we will see in the manual


    Uwe
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  17. Moffit

    Moffit NI Product Owner

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    probably rushed out to get suckers like me to update before the summer sale ended
     
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  18. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    I am not an advanced synthesis guy so slap me if this is stupid but... even directly connecting to output i still see some harmonics unless the osc filter is fully counterclockwise like the second guy said, is it normal for a pure sine to need a filter to be pure?
    Most filter types add a ton of harmonics, that's also expected typical behavior?
    I am not sure but all that doesn't bother me, some of the rest of the things mentioned do tho, I see most being addressed in updates but that kind of makes me feel that now instruments are also going down the path of KK / Maschine where we wait and wait and wait... then... wait some more.
     
  19. Uwe303

    Uwe303 NI Product Owner

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    OK strange I use melda analyzer and it's just showing one peak but I check again maybe I have made a mistake

    And you're right the other stuff I also see more important

    So i tried again and there is no difference if i turn the oscilator filter up or down with sine and standard engine - like expected
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  20. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

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    I think NI is well aware that Massive X is unfinished and was rushed out to meet the deadline. Pretty sure they are expecting some criticism, and much of it is justified…however, I don’t agree with the general sentiment that they should have waited until it’s “done” to release it. Software is never done, and the original Massive was far from perfect when it was first released too. But Massive X is at least stable (for me, anyway) and very usable. Would you rather have nothing at all for another 6–12 months, or what we have now? Should NI polish the UI in a clean room and then release it to the world, or is it better to incorporate feedback from a much wider group of users than a small beta testing team?

    I’m personally happy to have it in my hands, even if it still needs quite a bit of work, because it sounds incredible and makes me want to explore its many awesome, totally undocumented features. I don’t think it’s all that hard to understand how it works; just play with it and see what happens. If you find it confusing or frustrating, wait for the manual and a bit more UI polish, and in the meantime you can still have a lot of fun tweaking the presets…or take this opportunity to learn one of the other 50 synths you have that you’ve barely ever used (I’m not pointing fingers here…this absolutely applies to me too).

    In short, feedback like “I have no idea what combined effect the modulation sources are having on this parameter”, or “it takes too much clicking around to figure out how a patch works” is useful. Exaggerated emotional reactions like “this is a substandard product that’s just riding the Massive name to get people to buy it” are not only useless (no specific action can be taken to address it), but objectively wrong.

    Yes, there should be a manual, but let’s be honest…the vast majority of people never read any manual. (I know, because I write lots of documentation, and I do a damn fine job…but almost no one reads it.) Just like how everyone complains if a keyboard doesn’t have aftertouch, even though almost no one ever uses it. (Or even better, those weirdos who think they want polyphonic aftertouch, as if anyone other than Jordan Rudess can successfully use it.)
     
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