Massive X is a risk for the brand's strategy

Discussion in 'MASSIVE' started by Luca80, Apr 6, 2019.

  1. Luca80

    Luca80 NI Product Owner

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    What I expect from a new generation of wave table synth is giving me the opportunity to do exactly what I can do with Massive plus new serious features.
    If Massive has a well working Program Change, Massive X should have the same.
    If Massive X has just 12 sounds instead of 128, it doesn't worth to be bought. Program Change is a professional features letting user save on CPU on live sets, Processors didn't get significantly faster last 10 years.
    If you are implementing new features beside the old one, be sure they will cause bugs for less than one year and they won't be heavy for nowadays CPU, or you will waste musician's time and work.
    If Massive X is implementing effects that are inferior to external specialized plugins, it doesn't make any sense: my plugins have program change and I will go on using my routing tricks in the old Massive.
    If Massive's X GUI revolution is just a Gorilla's pic, it can't compete with competitors' OSC editor.

    Watch out, you are blowing user's expectation to the limit, and you delayed the release although you pushed the Komplete promotion promising an earlier date.

    In the marketing perspective you are risking a lot, Massive X could become a dent in your brand.

    Good luck!;)
     
  2. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    That's not 12 sounds you can switch with keys, those are Performer snapshots.
     
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  3. Paule

    Paule NI Product Owner

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    Yes, if they realize song and pattern structure. It's against my free style arrangements.
     
  4. Luca80

    Luca80 NI Product Owner

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    My initial statement quoted "If Massive X has just 12 sounds instead of 128, it doesn't worth to be bought".
    Clearly my concern is about the absence of Program Change and relative Preset Browser.
    If you tell me those performer snapshots can't even be activated by keys, you are not giving me good news.

    Please, can I know if Massive X will have Program Change with Browser like the old good Massive?
     
  5. Paule

    Paule NI Product Owner

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    Hope it becomes not the same desaster as Reaktor 6.3!
     
  6. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    In fact that is exactly how they're activated, by an octave of keys.
     
  7. trusampler

    trusampler NI Product Owner

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    Can all Massive v.1 patches even load inside Massive X?
     
  8. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    No, the structure of MX is different and more advanced.
     
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  9. Gezrah

    Gezrah New Member

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    I think "risk for the brand's strategy" is precisely why NI are releasing little bits of information on the blog. They are aware that they missed a highly publicised release date and want to demonstrate to customers that they are pushing ahead with getting it out ASAP by showing some form of progress.

    But it's hard to comment on features of an unreleased product or indeed how it works. Until Massive X is available to the public and/or reviewers we won't know if things like program change, in your example, are inferior or superior to Massive.

    Make no mistake, customers are expecting a lot from Massive X given the hype NI have made about it. Whether it lives up to that hype can only be determined once the product has been downloaded, not before.
     
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  10. Luca80

    Luca80 NI Product Owner

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    Expectation in marketing can be set, it is a technique. In this case is the company setting very high expectation because of the Komplete campaign, the delay, the teaser campaign and declaring they will have the next generation synth.

    They already did two marketing mistakes. In this situation much better release an extremely good product with no bugs. But the premise is not the best
     
  11. Luca80

    Luca80 NI Product Owner

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    So you are confirming my fear: Massive X will not have a Program Change Browser capable to load 128 Patches
     
  12. Bernhard Rems

    Bernhard Rems New Member

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    High expectations?

    Not on my side. Don't get me wrong. I am really looking forward to Massive X, but in the end, it will just be another excellent software synth. And I am happy with that.
     
  13. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    14,578
    No, I am confirming that performer's 12 snapshots are switchable via keyswitches. I am not confirming or denying anything else.
     
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  14. Luca80

    Luca80 NI Product Owner

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    What you wrote is what marketers call high expectation. You don't just expect, you take for granted, a much further step
     
  15. Luca80

    Luca80 NI Product Owner

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    Thank you for answering all my questions. I see the company asked you to put "While I beta-test for NI, my thoughts and opinions stated are my own and are not affiliated with NI" in the signature. So I know how limited is your action.

    I can only suppose: Massive X won't support Program Change and the preset browser, because its ambitious structure (modular+snapshots) increases the risk of let it crash if a preset is recalled while playing.
    I also suppose the modular environment won't support the signal bypass, which was very useful in using external effects. Personally I would prefer the opportunity to split the signal in 2 of 4 separate outputs.
    There are two main reasons:
    1. an instrument plug-in internal effects are NEVER good and variable as external one. There are brands specialized in effects, and they also support program change!
    2. the industry has an affirmed and consolidated trend in LAYERING the bass synth. If the modular system would address single component to a specific output, the synth would be suitable for the market demand
    My humble opinion is that the previous "routing" system was more than sufficient, stable and reliable for this kind of synth, NI could add some small features to the routing.

    I said this product could be a dent in your brand because actually my main profession is related to marketing. Some IT companies have the trend to hire engineers in marketing department, or they trust a little bit more in degrees oriented to direct transactions.

    We will see soon what's the result.

    Thank you again for listening
     
  16. Paule

    Paule NI Product Owner

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    Make no expectations, then you will never be disappointed.
     
  17. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    This is quite incorrect.
     
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  18. Old Mike

    Old Mike NI Product Owner

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    In my opinion, you might should wait until it is released.
    I read so much negative comments in here and outside this forum, the software is not even released.

    Expectations these days are often really high. But you cannot make everybodies dream come true.

    Don't buy it, if it doesn't fit your needs. Look at other vendors.

    I am really no fanboy, but I doubt, that the dev-team at NI just making another synth to stay in competition. There are talented and motivated people who love their work, which is their passion, too.
     
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  19. freakydinde

    freakydinde NI Product Owner

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    today processor are 6 times faster than 10 years ago, on ableton changing a preset cost more cpu power than having 2 synth playing alternatively.

    that is the case for any synthesizer, but internal fx are part of the synth color.

    in 2019 a UI without dark theme is a non sense, that is actually the main cons for me that may prevent me to buy this synth.
     
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  20. Luca80

    Luca80 NI Product Owner

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    A liveset may use more than 30 presets if the performers doesn't wish to stop audio and compete with the normal length of a DJ set. 2 alternate synth as you told is way too far to be useful! Trust me, I never had big problems with Program Change in that DAW. It is a pity you don't appreciate the Program Change, it is gold. It lets play the internal effects of the preset before the mixing effect with macros, and the liveset becomes very rich in timbre.

    About the CPU, exacly in the 10 years you mentioned, contrary as you said, we are experiencing a plateau in the clock speed. CPUs increased the quantity of transistors as before, but the technology we are using nowadays, hit a line regarding heat dissipation and power consumption.
    Those problems are tangible with laptops (an important detail for livesets). CPUs have more cores to compensate this problem, I am not sure they really optimize performance in music. The difference I see between the old and new laptop I have (both on top of their line for their year) is slight, and new software are asking resources, offering small benefits. It can depends on software house ability to optimize the multi-core technology.
    You can find more details here: https://www.quora.com/Why-havent-CPU-clock-speeds-increased-in-the-last-5-years

    Conclusion: maybe you don't need to optimize your production for a non-stop-audio liveset, maybe your need is more oriented to desktops for studio productions, and your considerations in another circumstance may be valid. But overall I don't see in the fact the reality you are describing, and I really feel a big loss if NI abandon the Program Change. I will more likely consider who doesn't