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Massive X: Status/Future?

Discussion in 'MASSIVE + MASSIVE X' started by Lucas Howden, Mar 23, 2021.

  1. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Well-Known Member

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    19,938
    2020-05-19

    Hardly two years.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. sijarvis

    sijarvis NI Product Owner

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    289
    Apologies. I read it wrong. Only 1 year. Hmmm.
     
  3. Lucas Howden

    Lucas Howden NI Product Owner

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    20

    I don´t like people contemptuously blaming others for exaggerating, if those others are basically right, and at worst make them (feel having to) apologize, only for not being accurate enough. Apologies would rather be indicated on manufacturer´s side from my point of view. Or faster improvements.
    Well then, let´s take a deeper look at "5 updates with dozens of improvements and additions":

    If we take a look at my excerpt of Massive X RELEASE NOTES* below, the timeline doesn´t show me any real important additions and improvements (besides maybe custom noise samples), no topics which particularly raise my customer interest over expectations on a release-ready synth, let alone make me tremble with excitement over NI´s ads like "MASSIVE X will grow, adapt, and evolve".
    Even the awaited addition of parameter readouts is no exciting news to me (albeit very pleasant, of course), since I would have expected this being implemented on release. The full manual only came with v1.1.0, some four months after release - what??
    So, in short, the RELEASE NOTES don´t make me say: "Wow!".

    I still can only browse presets by expansion or by instrument category, not both at the same time. I still either know if it´s, say, a bass or belongs to Moebius. How weak is this?
    I cannot tag my own presets as, say, Synth Pad.
    If I buy external (non-NI) expansions, they all have to be placed inside the user folder. I have to manually rename and re-save them to not confuse the dozens and dozens of them with my own presets. What??
    And, as said, I don´t just insist on browser updates. For example, I´d like to see some useful additions to the Performers as well. And more.

    And - August 2020 seems to have been the last effort on improvements, which is over EIGHT months away from now without any furher notice!


    *RELEASE NOTES

    Massive X 1.3.1 (2020-08-20)
    - Added scrollbar in menus
    - Improved parameter readouts
    - Smoother-looking modulation rings
    - Saving of user presets in dedicated 'Presets' subfolder

    New In Massive X v1.3.0 (2020-05-19)
    - Parameter readouts available
    - Custom noise samples
    - Custom noise samples saving into preset file

    Changes in Massive X v1.2.0 (2019-12-17)
    - Lightguide on KONTROL S-Series Keyboards indicates remote octave of Performer
    - Demo time has been increased from 30 to 60 minutes

    Changes in Massive X v1.1.0 (2019-10-31)
    - Added UI Themes (e.g. Dark mode)
    - Full manual

    Changes in Massive X v1.0.1 (2019-08-06)
    - Added menu pinning
    - Modules bypass
    - Added Arrows when hoverimg over menus


    Best
    Lucas Howden
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,056
    Not ideal, but for browsing presets you may use Komplete Kontrol. It is your decision, that you refuse this solution to your needs.
    So, this is sort of exageration. (You just refuse solution which does not give you desired effect the way you require.)

    Third party presets would be in "factory" preset group, if only third party contributors licenced it from NI. That is NI philosophy, so do not count on it will change in future.... So, it is not ommision or overlook by NI, it is intentional by design. If third party contributors want to have their patches in "right place", they must contact NI and make a deal... Otherwise - user folder....
     
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  5. Matt @ NI

    Matt @ NI NI Team NI Team

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    2,445
    And that's completely fine, we'll never please every single user every time ;)
    You have the right to think the product is not in good enough shape and we move too slow but again that's just your way to see things. We know what can be improved with Massive X and updates will come whenever possible. We also know a lot of users are making amazing use of it and frankly that's what matters most at the end of the day.

    With that said, suggesting we should apologize for "missing" features when a demo is available is a little strange imo.

    There seems to be a couple of updates lined up in Q2 and Q3 so let's see what's going to be on the menu then.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. sijarvis

    sijarvis NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    289
    The "exagerration" was actually made by me.

    Being a Brit, we format our timeline as D/M/Year. The last update was 2020-5-19, which I read as 2019. My mistake.
     
  7. sijarvis

    sijarvis NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    289
    Surely the NI team must also be a bit disappointed at its progress?

    No need to apologise but add me to the list of people who think that a product, so highly anticipated, and from such a well regarded company should have come to market without a proper browser. I have to agree with Lucas Howden on this one.

    You must have been rushed, is the only logical explanation I can think of.

    I look forward to this happening. It is a great sounding synth, although maybe not quite "massive" enough in features.
     
  8. Matt @ NI

    Matt @ NI NI Team NI Team

    Messages:
    2,445
    I can tell you that the Massive X team is not disappointed by the thousands of users doing great things with their product. We're always getting amazing feedback about it despite the conversation here ;)

    Regarding the browser, I'm definitely with you on it being the next big thing to bring and it will be a great change whenever ready. With that said, we certainly didn't feel it was so fundamental that we couldn't release the synth without a more polished version of it. We were not completely wrong considering users still embraced the product for it's sound and the other features.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. sijarvis

    sijarvis NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    289
    I actually asked whether they were disappointed by MX's slow progress, not whether people liked the synth.

    I like the synth but the progress is not good.

    We're NOT on the same page here. I don't think the browser should be regarded as the next big thing. It should have been there at the beginning.

    Please, make the next big thing something to do with sound shaping tools. It is your flagship synth.

    I disagree entirely but for the sake of not going round in circles, I shan't repeat myself,.

    The one thing I do agree is, that the sound is very good. MX is a noticeable step forward in quality and warmth but there should be unlimited everything if you're going to call it "Massive". Until then, it's only "so big".
     
  10. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,056
    What about using Komplete Kontrol browser? ;-)))
     
  11. Matt @ NI

    Matt @ NI NI Team NI Team

    Messages:
    2,445
    They are not disappointed.

    Again, that's one perspective and like I said a few times, it's not what we think or others users are saying.
    Also by big thing, I only meant it is most likely the next topic on the table for Massive X.

    At least we're almost on the same page here but don't get too caught up with terms, it's all subjective. We think it's Massive and since other users believe so too, it works ;) If others do not agree, then it's also fine.
     
  12. sijarvis

    sijarvis NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    289
    Indeed and I have yet to try it but if Komplete Kontrol is a good work-around for a browser, then i'll be quite disappointed if the next update is just a browser.

    Tbh, i'm not really that bothered by the browser. It's a bit of a faff finding my sounds as i've not necessarily labelled them as well as I should have but i'd really like some improvements to the envelopes (tempo sync D, A, H, D, and R - not just in the performers) as well as at least a second fully fledged filter.

    I'd also like unlimited everything....ha!
     
  13. sijarvis

    sijarvis NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    289
    Really? I would be if I were representing a big company and this was their most popular product.

    I can understand that you're not happy defending NI from seemingly negative feedback but from a customer point of view, I think it's essential that you hear both sides of the conversation. There would be no meaningful progress if people only ever said nice things.
     
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  14. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Well-Known Member

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    19,938
    Well Kontakt is actually NI's most popular product... :p
     
  15. Matt @ NI

    Matt @ NI NI Team NI Team

    Messages:
    2,445
    I'm not saying the start wasn't rocky or that they are particularly happy about having to deal with compatibility topics but again we have fantastic feedback on Massive X at the moment and beyond this thread, there's a LOT of excited folks ;)

    Don't get me wrong, I'm more than happy to have this conversation and that's why you see me on here at midnight sharing my thoughts. That's one of the main point of the forum and even if I have a different perspective, I really appreciate these kind of threads :thumbsup:
    Sometimes, I would just like for everyone to understand there's more to it than what you read here though.

    That's right :cool:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2021
  16. chk071

    chk071 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    180
    What is right about claiming that there haven't been any updates in 2 years, when there have been updates in the last 2 years, the latest 11 months ago?

    On the other hand, I constantly see users here arguing that NI should apologize for the state the software is in. Why? And why do those bitterly disappointed users don't just use something which doesn't bitterly disappoint them?

    It's always the same. A handful of overly vocal always unsatisfied users. The others, like me, are enjoying the synth in the meantime, and might be waiting for things which further improve the user experience for them, like, in my case, MIDI learn and host automation of all parameters, and wavetable import. I know what I bought when I bought MX (or, in my case, Komplete 12). If you only buy software for some imaginary updates it might get some day, you'll be disappointed by default, that's for sure.

    Kudos to Matt @ NI , by the way. The amount of patience, and the friendliness in which he responds to forum posts here is really exemplary. Don't think I'd have nearly as much patience. ;)
     
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  17. GuyCool

    GuyCool NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    25
    Fair enough.
    What I find fascinating is that on fora discussing M1 AS, the discussions are often about ‘how many instances of u-he Diva’ are possible. A 10 yr old soft synth.
    As I said before, I am quite the NI fan. I am kinda disappointed they aren’t talking about MX instead. MX should be trumping every other SS right now, on every metric. But it’s not even part of the conversation...

    What does that say about NI’s flagship product?
     
  18. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,056
    It is not 10 years old. ;-)
     
  19. GuyCool

    GuyCool NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    25
    Diva is. Well, 9 years if you’re going to be pedantic.
    A 9 year old SS is the standard that people are using to compare modern processors.

    Doesn’t it disappoint you that MX isn’t the modern benchmark?
     
  20. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,056
    The difference between Diva and MX is that MX is not that old. So, it is not so widespread, so it is not good as a benchmark. Also benchmark plugin must be possible to run in many, many instances. Otherwise it cannot work as a benchmark.... One cannot run fractions of software synth.

    in 8 years MX may become sort of benchmark. That time CPUs will be aproximatelly 10x stronger than at time of release. ;-) So, one will be able to run few tens of MX instances.

    And that time it will have the greatest preset browser in the world. And many pipes and whistles.