MIDI events playback bug...

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by CakeAlexS, Jun 9, 2015.

  1. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,262
    Possible bug...

    All in the Maschine GUI (Windows).

    1) Open an existing project with more than one scene.
    2) Loop a single scene.
    3) Select a sound.
    4) Open the control lane.
    5) Open the midi pane.
    6) Add a pitchwheel track
    7) Draw in midi events.
    8) Play your project through and hear the events you have drawn, keep playing.
    9) Hit the X next to the pitchwheel (still playing) OR hit UNDO until you've got rid of the track.

    EXPECTED

    You can't hear what you have drawn. MIDI has been reset as before after a scene has looped.
    It's gone forever (unless you redo).

    ACTUAL

    It's stuck on the last event.
    You can try MIDI panic on the controller (SHIFT + MUTE) and it does nothing.
    The only way I can get it to return to what it was is restart the project.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  2. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,262
    Anybody able to validate?
    Thanks.
     
  3. Matt74

    Matt74 Member

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    Do you ever dream of a job as a beta tester?
     
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  4. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    Funnily enough I've done QA jobs for software projects. Still do (I'm not dreaming!). Well spotted that man, If NI's looking for a QA guy PM me ;)
    Are you able to validate?
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2015
  5. Matt74

    Matt74 Member

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    Okay. I think I can validate your issue. But first, let me see if I understand your issue. You made a pitch change to some instrument (responding to midi) in your sound slot by drawing in the change in the pitch bend modulator track. You play it back and you correctly hear the pitch bend from e.g. +0 to +12 semitones. Now you remove the modulator track, play it back and the pitch is still at +12 semitones. Is this correct?

    I believe that's not a bug but something I would expect to happen. The instrument's pitch is set according to the last value it received. The same with a sustain pedal. If I play a piano piece with my midi keyboard and I press the sustain pedal it keeps it in sustain until I lift my foot off the pedal. If I draw in the sustain at the beginning of a pattern the sound in the slot will have sustain ON until I draw in a sustain OFF somewhere and play it back.

    So I expect that behavior and do not regard it as a bug or something.

    Did I understand your issue correctly and what do you think?
     
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  6. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,262
    I totally get where you are coming from, however it won't clear either doing an UNDO or pressing MIDI panic.
    This leads me to consider it isn't that behaviour you describe (esp in the MIDI panic case with SHIFT+MUTE).
     
  7. Matt74

    Matt74 Member

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    As far as I know, PANIC only kills sounds not midi settings. I would hate it when PANIC would reset my instrument.
    For the UNDO, as long as there are no midi commands send to the instrument, it doesn't change it's sound.
    With midi there is no data send until something tells the instrument change has to be made. So you ended your playback at +12 semitones, you delete the pitch change, it stays at +12. You need to let the instrument know it needs to go back to +0 pitch. So, you either draw in +0 and play back, or you move the pitch bend wheel and let it return to +0. Either way, you have told your instrument you want +0. Did this make sense?
     
  8. Matt74

    Matt74 Member

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    Deleting a modulation track does nothing to the state of your instrument. Nothing to send to your instrument if there's no modulation. And you want modulation. From +12 to +0.
     
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  9. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    Fair enough but I would expect a MIDI panic to sort it. There seems to be no way easy to clear either so it's ugly.
    Also Maschine being a live performance loop box groove machine thingy. I think it should behave that way (that point is debatable of course).
     
  10. Matt74

    Matt74 Member

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    I understand what you want. I would like it to be as it is now. At least that's consistent. I mean, when would you like Maschine to automagically send a pitch value of +0 to the instrument in your sound slot? When you stop playback? Imagine you stop playback in the middle of a pattern, just after you bent the pitch of a synth lead to work towards a climax in your performance or whatever. Do you want Maschine to set the pitch of your lead back to +0, so whenever you press play again, the lead is played an octave lower then just before? It might fit your style, it might not.

    Tricky to implement, me thinks. :confused:
     
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  11. Matt74

    Matt74 Member

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    To add to the above:

    If you press PANIC it kills ALL sounds. Not just the selected one. Should PANIC reset the pitch of ALL instruments?
     
  12. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,262
    Yeah but MIDI panic should kill it right? So I don't think it's a MIDI issue. Furthermore the issue persists until you restart the project.

    If MIDI panic killed it there's an argument for it being by design and it's an enhancement... but it doesn't.... Unless I'm missing something...
     
  13. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,262
    Sorry we wrote the last posts at the same time...

    > Should PANIC reset the pitch of ALL instruments?

    I believe so. Always worked for me that way.
     
  14. Matt74

    Matt74 Member

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    I didn't think MIDI panic was supposed to send a pitch=0 command. Not entirely sure though. I certainly didn't expect it to but you could be right. Someone else should give it a try because I currently don't own a midi capable instrument I can try it out on.
     
  15. Matt74

    Matt74 Member

    Messages:
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    Perhaps it's something the instrument should do. Maschine can only send the PANIC command. The instrument should obey that command but after sending it, it's out of Maschine's hands. Or so to speak.
     
  16. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    It should reset everything at the Maschine end to the MIDI default. Remember it is receiving no "MIDI instrument" any more in this scenario (see #1 steps).
     
  17. Matt74

    Matt74 Member

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    I think a much more comprehensive insight into the workings of Maschine's panic button is in order.

    Anyone able to shed light in this darkness of ignorance? ;)
     
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  18. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,262
    Well I'm Ignorant here :)

    All I know is....

    SHIFT + MUTE in Maschine will reset a plugin with a stuck note (tested on a buggy Cakewalk Z3TA+2 plugin), no other method will do it (on/off in the GUI etc). . That points to a typical MIDI Panic behaviour.

    Nobody seems to know where MIDI panic is in the GUI. Note I'm not talking about the on/off button), that does not work. Have tried SHIFT and CTRL clicking that power button as well, but it when you turn it back on the stuck note comes back (so it has to just turn off the audio engine not reset MIDI).

    Thanks...
     
  19. lethal_pizzle

    lethal_pizzle NI Product Owner

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    10,600
    All MIDI panic does is send note offs to ensure that all sounds stop. That is it's function and as such there's no need for it to be messing with any other MIDI data
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2015
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  20. Matt74

    Matt74 Member

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    Well, then it leaves the TS with the one option (with my limited knowledge of Maschine) I posted earlier. You need to send a pitch=0 manually in Maschine. Not a bug for me, perhaps a feature request for the TS.