MIDI LEARN FINALLY ?

I would be totally fine without midi learn, if every parameter would be enabled for host automation, so that I could either build an NKS template myself or could choose, which parameter I want to control temporarily via Cubase quick control. The fact, that you always have to go via the macros is an unnecessary step and quite annoying, and beside that I'd rather user the macros for manipulating multiple controls at once with varying degrees. So, it would be really helpful to have the opportunity to have an easy, direct access to the synth's control via a hardware controller, and it would be great, if users could have that without having to waiting and/or maybe even having to buy NI's first midi 2.0 controller.

Another very easy possibility to enhance the hardware access would be implementing several banks of 16 macro controls. It wouldn't be ideal, but it could be a compromise between development/testing efforts and providing more access for the users.

 

Matt @ NI, I appreciate the response, but I respectfully don't think there's any real reason for those who have been somewhat aggressively dismissing the need for MIDI learn on here to be doing so: as the OP and I have both said, this thread is for requesting an essentially industry standard feature. It shouldn't concern those who will never use it. That's not the point: the point is that very many of us, especially those driven to start such a thread in the first place, WILL. This is for such people primarily. Obviously.

Which brings us back to the original point: MIDI learn is essentially a plugin industry standard for good reason. It honestly cannot be that hard to implement given how many other companies are doing it.

This is what bugs me: this is not a "have 30,000 meetings to decide whether we'll have 40,000 more to decide on having 100,000 more on assessing popular interest for deciding whether or not to decide on perhaps deciding" thing.

Just do the damn thing.

Seriously. Just get it done. Please? One dedicated engineer could and should be able to knock this out in a day or so.

Is there knob/slider? Yeah? Make right-clicky say "MIDI Learn" & "MIDI Forget" & bind/unbind to a physical knob. DONE!

Don't overthink this.

 

You don't know the MX codebase so you cannot know how hard it is to implement or not. It's not exactly a picnic considering the sheer number of parameters.

Plus there are other priorities to deal with first (Big Sur, Apple Silicon compatibility, arguably patch browser should be overhauled before anything else...)

 

If the codebase is too complex to implement MIDI learn in a reasonable amount of time, that's a problem. OK, sure, I don't have the codebase in front of me, but I know enough to know that if a company has engineered something in such a way where they're piling on technical debt while putting off industry standard features indefinitely, that's a defective company in need of reform.

Patch browser? Really? That's more important than MIDI learn? On what planet?

Look, I'm not here to argue. NI is going to have whatever priorities it's going to have, and clearly those who've shoveled thousands its way aren't going to make much of a dent. Never have, so no reason to think they ever will.

"Sheer number of parameters". Uh-huh. Tell that to u-he or Synapse. Give me a break, dude. I see you often being weirdly contrarian on Gearslutz and many other forums. Not like you're being mean or anti-social, but I've just seen you for years now take this enormously frustrating stance of getting in there and setting people straight.

Welp, I'm voting with my cash. Listen up, NI: you will not see another cent from me till this issue is addressed. I have other options, and I'm taking them. I am very, very tired fighting with your busted-ass software.

I reported a Dune 3 VST3 version automation bug to Synapse earlier this week and within ONE DAY they sent me a patch! I was stunned! MARVELOUS!

I'm ****ing sorry, but NI has no excuse here. This is BS. How much time have people spent defending NI that could've been spent actually writing code to implement a feature that should have been part of the original release?

I am tired of these excuses and I'm tired of people on forums bafflingly circling the wagons in defense of the non-implementation of a feature they're not interested in anyway. It's puerile and a complete waste of time.

 

DrWashington You gotta ease up on the tone here. I understand you want midi learn in Massive X but there is no need to attack others suggesting they are fine without or simply pointing out the reality behind development to make this happen.

I said previously we're not going to prevent people from having conversations about features even if they disagree with said features. That's part of what this forum is about and while I agree we need a better process to measure interest and gather essential feedback, we're not there quite yet.

 

And now you're accusing me of "attacking" others. Read what I wrote carefully: I'm simply reporting my experience over the years, Matt, and explaining what it has been without varnish.

I'm not saying anything about "measuring interest or gathering essential feedback" or any of that. There's nothing for you to "agree" with. Either you're implementing MIDI learn and can give us a timeline, or you're not and you can't. Anything else is just spinning your wheels needlessly.

I'm tired of being made to feel like I'm being unreasonable for requesting an industry standard feature. I've been very, very patient up till now.

I want to make this clear again: NI has lost me as a customer going forward unless and until this is rectified. Don't tell me I "have to" "ease up" on my "tone". Read back over this thread and the others on the same topic and you can get a pretty clear picture of what's pushed me to this point with just a little empathy. How long has Massive X been out? What version are we on now?

This is just another frustrating product from a uniquely frustrating company. I prefer to support smaller, more responsive, more reasonable developers. I've had brilliant, fantastic service from many if not most of them, especially Synapse, u-he, D16 Group, and many others I could name.

I could focus on what works and what's working for me rather than wait forever for the right holding company to come along and set NI's priorities straight after lo, these many years. Or, I could face the reality that if that was ever going to happen, it probably would have by now.

Tired of the condescension, tired of the delays, tired of the excuses. Sayonara for now, NI...

 

And I'm getting tired of self-important people who are so aggressively vocal about their first world problems. Seriously, back off a bit. Nothing you criticize here is so important that it requires such an aggressive tone and behavior.

You're one in a thousand. Face it.

 

That's kinda what I implied: I'm backing off a bit. In fact, I'm not spending any more money on NI products till the basics are addressed.

I've been a customer for two decades. This "tone" isn't something that happened overnight. I've been dealing all this week with companies in this industry who are an absolute delight to work with and I'm very, very cordial and professional with them.

By contrast, my experience over the years with NI has been spotty at best, and I am allowed to voice these frustrations, virtually all of which are due to how they are managed. Stop trying to make this about me or my "tone". It's about NI. I've spent thousands on this company. Plural. I feel I have a right to voice my concerns.

First world problems? Self-important? Last I checked, you were the one who jumped on this thread to try to make us second guess asking for what we want, explaining how it's really not that important. Who are you to be so dismissive of the workflows of others or what they're asking for? Can you not see how this frustrates those who have been asking for a certain feature for years?

 

Who are "we"? Do you really think you're talking for anyone but yourself here?

You're really acting absolutely ridiculous here.

 

C'mon, dude... drop it. I am not the one who posts 27,000+ times on KVR and who clearly isn't in any kind of support role. How much music you getting done?

"We" would be those who have been asking for MIDI learn, including myself and the one who started this thread, obviously. Why do I even have to explain that to you? Twice? Who's being ridiculous here, really?

I had zero intention of engaging in any kind of flame war with anyone about this, and I'm not going to engage you further. Go do something, preferably off the Internet. I will, too.

 

Awesome argument. Well, I guess if your point was any stronger, you wouldn't have to resort to low blows.

I stick with it: You're a spoiled brat who acts like he doesn't get his way. Actually... like a lot of people on KVR Audio, yep.

 

Maybe this back-and-forth bickering should stop right about now.

 

Yep. I'm really trying to figure out why he pounced early in this thread, when it should have been clear from the context to anyone that I was using "we" to denote those who were asking for MIDI learn specifically, including myself, OP, and anyone else who wants it.

I'm far from alone in wanting this rather basic feature, as a Google search will reveal. Vent a little frustration in a company forum, become a lightning rod for its fanboys, apparently.

Thanks for trying to help E.D., but I was just trying to emphasize most of us asking are aware of the workarounds already, and they're not what we're after.

 

I must admit, I have to agree with Dr Washington. MX was released without features that should have been included from the outset and the fact that people have had to ask for them is ridiculous. A decent browser and midi learn are "no brainers". NI should get their sh*t together because had MX been released with these BASIC FEATURES, this thread would never have happened.

However, as a synth, MX is an incredible concept, so I hope the next update goes further than adding browser/midi learn but that we get a few sonic tools to play with too.

 

I very much agree on all points, sijarvis. Well said.

We all know Massive X was late, and those of us with an ear to the grapevine know it was a bit of a troubled project, I have to suspect due to the management culture at NI, which has been gaining a bit of notoriety in the industry.

My hope is and has been for a while that those engaging directly with musicians would have more say in how decisions are made. NI has let several brilliant ideas wither and die over the years. Remember Spektral Delay and Vokator? Don't get me started on Kore & Kore 2. What an expensive fiasco that all was...

But yes, NI really needs to get it together and remember who pays them the money they need to exist, and why. Sure hope Francisco Partners knows what they're doing and can clean house... we loyal customers have really put up with a lot over the years. In my case, a whole lot. A whole, whole lot...

 

[QUOTE="DrWashington, post: 2063937, member: 6235"NI really needs to get it together and remember who pays them the money they need to exist, and why. Sure hope Francisco Partners knows what they're doing and can clean house....[/QUOTE]

My fear is more that Francisco Partners do too much "house cleaning" and ruin anything left that's good about NI.

If you get too close to the corporate monster, you might become the next meal and if Francisco Partners decide to call in their investment, NI may stop existing altogether, then any purchases you've made will have lost all value.

Thankfully, I've only spent a few hundred ££'s directly with NI as I mostly sought out unwanted licenses. Also, i'd rather make my own sounds from scratch rather than buy packs, saving me a hell of a lot more.

This is the advantage of being a hobby tweaker. I have never made a penny from my music and it's likely to stay that way, although I suppose it's hobbyists that make up the majority of sales.

 

Well this derailed completely

Thank you for the input on midi learn, we understand it's important for the ones that participated in this thread. Unfortunately, it's not really on the radar at the moment afaik but we'll keep you updated if we hear more from the product team.

Closing this thread.