Modulation in Maschine

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Supercreative, Dec 26, 2014.

  1. loachm

    loachm NI Product Owner

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    2,021
    @Supercreative - I just replied to your PM. However, I wasn't able to attach some files to it, so I'm doing it here. Maybe some will find this helpful, too.

    It's basically using a host for better automation and a song mode, which Maschine doesn't handle very well or simply doesn't have, respectively. So, for those that don' t have a seperate host or don't want to invests a lot of money (because Maschine will have those features one day!! - please, please, please...), cheaper tools for that could be hosts like Live Lite or Cockos Reaper - if you prefer curved automation lines like I do. But apart from that, of course, any other DAW can do this.

    It's a Live project, which I created with the Live demo, since I'm not at home this weekend and don't have Live on my laptop, just Maschine. Owners of Live Lite probably might not be able to open it, but Ableton offers a 30 days demo of the full version that also allows you to save. So you could have a look that way. I hope the project is pretty self-explanatory, but feel free to ask here, if you have any questions...
     

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  2. Supercreative

    Supercreative NI Product Owner

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    1,957
    Thanks. I was able to open it in Live-Lite 9.5. I´ll take a closer look now!
     
  3. Supercreative

    Supercreative NI Product Owner

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    Ok so far so good. Running Maschine in Ableton (plugin).
    I got the host automation working inside of ableton.
    Anyone who can confirm that this host automation can be also recorded into Maschine - for further sessions with maschine (standalone)?
     
  4. loachm

    loachm NI Product Owner

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    2,021
    ...I think neither host automation nor midi automation can be recorded into Maschine - I have tried it with the record button enabled as well as with the auto write button being pressed. Unless I have forgotten enabling certain options, I don't think it's possible...
     
  5. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    7,810
    If the automation is sending MIDI CC messages, Maschine can record them (just with record enabled, no need for auto write, if memory serves). But then these won't be tied to the Maschine parameters unless you use some MIDI loopback trick and map the parameters to the looped back MIDI CC (i.e., the recorded MIDI CC messages get played out of Maschine and then back in to control itself. Could get messy, though it can work to an extent. Certainly not an ideal solution though. But then, I prefer just working in Maschine and using its modulation/automation as is (not that it doesn't irk me regularly).
     
  6. Supercreative

    Supercreative NI Product Owner

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    1,957
    Thanks Mr. 36!
    But how do you get smooth modulation transitions in Maschine (multiple modulation across scenes)?
    There should be a disable button for "relative modulation". I´ll have permanent changes of modulation (automation) inside of maschine! What is the best way for it?
    Primary I´ll want to use Maschine standalone. But when it´s only possible to get the "permanent automation" from a DAW via host automation I´ll choose Logic or Live Lite.
    I hope for the next big Maschine update!
     
  7. loachm

    loachm NI Product Owner

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    2,021
    ...in my test the Maschine parameters are mapped to the corresponding MidiCCs the host is sending and the knobs are moving. Could you have a look or explain, why no automation is recorded. I can't think of what I might have done wrong and to me it doesn't seem that I'd need a virtual Midi cable or something - the knobs are automated and I had no luck with virtual Midi cables, also using a real midi cable between my to, from & through my other Midi devices with the Maschine HW did not work. Anyway, I'd be glad, if you could have a look - thanks!

    The first example is sending host automation to the first Maschine sound and the second one is sending Midi automation to the second Maschine sound.
     

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  8. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    7,810
    Ah, no, my suggestion/example wasn't quite meaning this and, I believe, if you have a CC mapped/learnt to a parameter, that CC will not be recorded into Maschine. Maschine records all CC messages that are not linked with parameters. If they're mapped to parameters, they take priority and the mapping swallows the CC, so to speak. Like I said anyway, though, it wouldn't be an ideal workflow and modulation would still work in the relative way some of us dislike.
    (Yes, I too would like an "absolute" option for modulation in Maschine, even though that goes against NI's definition of modulation.)
     
  9. loachm

    loachm NI Product Owner

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    2,021
    ...thanks for your reply. I have some follow-up questions, though. Why are we able to link Midi CCs to parameters if we aren't able to record the messages (I assume, the answer is flawed design or poor execution, respectively :)). But OK - I disable the Midi mapping from the parameters, now where are the Midi CC messages being recorded in Maschine like you said?
     
  10. Spazoo

    Spazoo NI Product Owner

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    1,725
    it seems that NI didn't finish maschine's midi implementation or sequencer.

    maybe they stopped maschine development to work on a DAW?
     
  11. Supercreative

    Supercreative NI Product Owner

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    1,957
    ...or on more expansions :p
     
  12. C.T. Blaze

    C.T. Blaze Member

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    Have you guys tried to add an item in the automation area and choose the corresponding MIDI msg there BEFORE trying to record it?
    To "arm" it for recording, so to speak? I'm pretty sure this worked for me, but haven't done it in a while...
     
  13. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    7,810
    In the MIDI modulation lane (at the bottom of the Pattern area). The MIDI lane is the one that has velocity by default on the Sound level and its icon is a little 5-pin MIDI socket.
     
  14. loachm

    loachm NI Product Owner

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    2,021
    ...I know the Midi lane, but that was the oversight:

    Thanks a lot, C.T.! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

    @Supercreative - there you go, not that intuitive and obvious, but in the end it works. :) The host automation doesn't seem to be recorded, so better use the midi automation. Unlearn any MidiCC, if you have set up any before. Add a control lane for a MidiCC in the midi lane by clicking on the plus sign, then left-click on that new lane and choose a MidiCC number from the list. Press the record button in Maschine and then start Live. The automation you have drawn in the midi automation of the Live clip gets recorded into Maschine. Then reassign the Maschine control to that MidiCC number. If you have any other questions about midi automation in Live, just hit me up...
     

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  15. loachm

    loachm NI Product Owner

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  16. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    7,810
    That's strange. MIDI CC messages should be recorded when received if record is enabled. No need to create the CC lane first. This definitely still works in standalone (used it to record Microbrute mod wheel, for example). Perhaps a difference for the plugin.

    I see in the screenshot of the GUI that there's a MIDI in/out section (set to host in the screenshot). Can this plugin access your MIDI ports directly?
     
  17. loachm

    loachm NI Product Owner

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    2,021
    ...guess, that's it. At least this one is working, so I'm not questioning it anymore :D - trying to get my head around virtual midi cables again... :mad:

    ...if you're referring to my screenshot in post #34, I'm not sure what you mean exactly - can you elaborate?
     
  18. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    7,810
    Sorry, no, that comment was relating to your post about MIDI Shaper. The GUI screenshot I referred to is the one on the MIDI Shaper page. There's a MIDI i/o section, so if it can access MIDI ports directly, you should be golden. If it can't, you won't be able to use it in Maschine 2 (no MIDI out from plugins).
     
  19. dj_67

    dj_67 NI Product Owner

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    144
  20. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    7,810
    There you go. According to Mr 67 there, MIDI Shaper does access your MIDI ports directly. Excellent.