monitors and audio interface help?

I am sick of using my PC speakers to mix with my tracks come out like crap. So i've decided that i need a good pair of cheap monitors so far i'm looking at the

KRK-Rokit-5-RP5G2

i have about 350$ to start my home studio with so there goes about 250-300$ for the pair and thats the cheapest i can get without having noticeable quality degradation. Also I know i need an audio interface to be able to plug more hardware into, i'm looking into an Eleven rack (down the road) its 700$ anywhere you look you cant find it cheaper and it comes with pro tools which i think would be great for recording since i primarily play guitar, and plan on using maschine for bass and beats.

is maschine compatible with pro tools? like can i run it as a vst like in reaper?

and also theres for effects a boss SL 20 slicer guitar pedal which silces your guitar riffs into beat synced notes and it can sync with the midi clock of maschine (so it says i've never seen one just on youtube) so i could sync my guitar with the SL-20 slicer and then into the audio interface (Eleven Rack) and finally to maschine... i'm thinking that would be my signal chain but i'm asking for advice does this sound like it would work? i heard that recently they made it where pro tools LE worked with windows 7 (which i have windows 7).


for my needs as a kinda techno guitarist person would this be a good start for a studio setup on a budget? i'm jobless and so when i get money i have to make sure i get the most efficient peice of gear. I dont know if i should get the audio interface first or the monitors because the audio interface is also an effects unit on top of coming with 250$ pro tools software which i think that would give me a head start and i'd just have to bear with mixing thru my PC speakers but at least I would have some good software and really nice guitar sounds from the eleven rack next would be the monitors and then the SL-20 slicer.


so... any advice or potential error in my thinking is why i'm asking these questions. what do you guys think? is this a good efficient setup for a budget home studio start? i've read tons about the monitors and most people say the KRK are better than the m-audio or beheringer ones and for the interface i dont want just a simple m-audio cheapo one (which would work) i was going for the eleven rack because it has three things in one package, audio interface, effects unit, and software to record with. and since i'm a guitarist the fact that the audio interface is also a top notch effects unit is too appealing.


thanks guys!

you can check out my horrible tracks i made with reaper at http://www.musicxray.com/artists/jreck

those were recorded via maschine and the guitar stuff was with a pod 2.0 and you can tell the fidelity isnt that great and the panning and overall mixing is very unstable. thats why i need the monitors but i dont know if i should get the audio interface first or the monitors... monitors would help me mix better but the audio interface would still help my mix sound better cause of the better effects.

 

I would def recommend the KRK 5's, I use them and think they're wonderful additions to my studio. I would however buy an audio interface that will suffice your needs until you can save up $700 for the Eleven Rack. I know there's a few M-Audio interfaces that come with Protools LE. I say this because you're going to want to route the Monitors out of the interface, not your computer...unless you have a beefy internal sound card in your PC. It really would benefit you to save up just a little more and buy the monitors and soundcard together.

As for the eleven rack, I know its awesome, I want one too, but you said you don't have a job and you want to spend money efficiently...so I'd tend to recommend a cheaper interface to work with for awhile until you have enough money for the Eleven. Also, the free Komplete Elements software from NI has a version of Guitar Rig included that can help you with effects and amp modeling.


As for the SL-20 slicer, you really don't need that if you have Maschine. You can record a guitar part directly onto a pad, and then chop it up to your hearts content ALL within Maschine.


I am pretty sure Maschine can run as a VST in pro-tools, however I use Ableton so maybe a fellow forum member who uses pro-tools can shed some light?

 

Whatever monitors you go for, also consider doing sound treatment in your room.... if you have a poor room for acoustics then even decent monitors have the potential to sound terrible and you'll have trouble mixing on them. In fact, monitors that do pump out a decent amount of ooomph can make matters worse.

The good news for the budget is that you can make your own sound treatment; it's a case of wood, material and acoustic rockwool. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDxV0jbD9w8"]How to make rockwool acoustic panels - YouTube[/ame] is one of many videos on the subject.

I actually made mine from 4" wood and 4" acoustic grade rockwool. The difference to the speakers I have is incredible.

So IMO sort your room first. Then the monitors. Then the interface..... the thing with the interface is that you'll never hear the improvements if your monitoring solution and room are poor.

Gary
---
I should just point out that the above video is not me or my panels..... And I don't make these panels commercially. I'm a keen amateur who recently treated his study with loads of home-made panels and even made a vocal wall, but this is all just DIY for me.

Reason I'm posting agains is that I've just had a PM asking 'how much to ship to a US address' so thought I should make clear that this was friendly DIY advice as opposed to me trying to sell something I enjoyed making them for myself and recommend that others would benefit from doing similar but I've no intention of making them for others. Sorry for any confusion

 

step one is always, always, ALWAYS, GET A MAC.

its no contest for music production...macs are better.

and yes, mashine works as a vst in pro tools

 

back in reality land..

The Rokit Rp5 are a great budget speaker.. I would add a USB audio interface... and good ones can be had from $150.. for example

http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--PRSAUDIOBOX

personally I would strongly recommend getting a unit with balanced i/o and would even suggest this is more important than 24b/96khz performance.. but iirc you can get both these features for $150.

protools does not make your music better and neither does a mac.. and there is nothing wrong with a maschine/Reaper/prosonus/RP5 setup ...

 

I would personally go for the KRK RP6's. The have a littl more umph. I use them and tested both the rp5s and rp8's also. The RP6's were bang on for me.

Use them with an RME Babyface, which is superb, and if you only need a few inputs, like you sound like you do, that would serve your needs perfectly.

 

No, step one is actually solving the problem a person has as opposed to giving a kneejerk response which (in this case) will do absolutely nothing to make him happier.....

Faced with someone who has a limited budget and is wondering whether to go for better monitoring or a better interface first, you choose to go with a different operating system which will be beyond the budget he has and solves neither of the problems outlined. In short, he can't, he won't and (even if he could) it wouldn't work.

Why, when he's wanting to use Maschine (which is pretty happy on either PC or Mac) would you suggest this? Do you honestly think that it is going to solve the problem of poor sound quality which is causing him to be unhappy with his ability to mix accurately?

Mac vs PC is a viable debate for another thread, not a helpful resonse to the OP.

 

+100 for this ..

as long as that thread is somewhere OTHER than the Maschine forum..which has done well to avoid this...

 

Yeah cmon @adamcognac, that wasn't a helpful response at all. While I do share your love for Apple computers, I must say that there are PC based studios that do just as well as Mac based ones...and in this case we have a fellow Maschinist who is just starting out, with limited gear and money, asking a legitimate question...why not give him a legitimate answer?



@Gary, good call on room treatments, I totally blanked on that aspect. Wood and rockwool are fantastic materials for those of us on budgets

 

well i got a PC for dual purpose its not "just for audio recording"

I have a fatality edition soundcard which says it can record at 96k or whatever and it said that it was good for audio production and the drivers have an audio production mode.

As for the maschine choppping guitar samples, i know that, i've tried it, and its not near what the sl 20 is capable of. it beatsyncs your riff with the midi timer on maschine so i wouldnt have to play to a perfect beat and it slices them up differently and has more than 16 or 32 options.

i've tried slicing guitar samples with maschine and sometimes it works, maybee with slow one or two chord 80 bpm stuff but for metal stuff it just doesnt detect the transients right and you cant set them close enough at least with my experience i've tried all the modes of slicing for guitar riffs and none of them seem to fit correctly without sounding choppy, it either records a whole part of a song and just plays out over a drum beat or samples into 16ths and then when i play a pad or sequence of pads based off what riffs are played it just sounds like crap when it slices in the middle of a hammer on or pull off or slide i've manually set the slices as best i can but the sl 20 slicer has everything automatic and u can fine tune.

i was looking at the sl 20 specifically because maschine just cant handle complex guitar parts and make a complete song without choppy slices and the slicer at least places each slice on beat which the maschine slicing software doesnt.


i would get better than the rokit rp 5 or whatever but thats the best i can do with my budget if i were to go up a notch that would mean i would have to forego something else and right now i'm leaning towards just waiting till xmas so i can get the eleven rack since it does 3 things in one vs just sounding better with monitors, anyway the monitors plug directly into the eleven rack and i could use some pro tools software instead of reaper which i hate. I just thought the sl20 would be able to add some cross channel rhythmic tones which u cant do with slicing guitar riffs within maschine. hitting a button to trigger a guitar slice is totally different than playing a riff that gets auto chopped into beat synced slices and ran thru filters to have a slapback or echo cross channel effect. maschine just cant do that.

thanks for the input, but i still am leaning on just waiting for the eleven rack to drop or get it for xmas i can sit on my money, it would be nice to get something now but the speakers i'd eventually replace and it woludnt improve my input signal any just my mixing and if you input a crap signal then the mixing isnt going to matter as much as if i had a good audio interface with tons of good effects and everyone is overlooking the fact it has pro tools which i hear is nice (compared to free reaper).

so i'll probably wait, like i said 150$ per monitor is the most i can go atm and really the pod 2.0 interface for recording isnt cutting it anymore i just cant get past the 3 in one features of the eleven rack, i'm just wondering if its worth waiting for, i've been mixing on pc speakers forever now so i'm used to them.

 

the D/A A/D converters are what gives the quality

 

sorry i dont know the terminology or technical stuff what is D/A A/D converter?

i do know the slicer has more tweakable parameters than just the slice function in maschine like dry/wet settings and different pattern rhthyms. you could probably do the same with maschine but it would take a lot more work cause i could never get the slices to time properly to the BPM of maschine cause you first had to make sure you played the guitar riff at the right BPM, then make sure the maschine BPM is the same, and then make sure your slice is cut right at the exact point to match the BPM and for me its rare to play a riff that is has consistent detectable transients

 

D/A digital to analogue (from soundcard into headphones/monitors)
A/D anologue into digital (from your analogue recordings mic/guitar/synths/pre/comps/any outboard into the digital)

a/d /d/a are worth researching for any interface you wish to choose.

 

I would get the KRK's and alesis IO2 audio interface its around 60 bucks and has everything you need!
Almost forgot as for a DAW I think pro tools is only worth it for a real studio enviroment for a homestudio or a small studio I would go with Presonus Studio one pro or Ableton Live mutch more straight forward and user friendly.
Thats acutally my setup!
hope it helps.

Beasy!

 

yes that does help, i just spent what i was going to save on a pedal i couldnt help it but i'm getiting some monitors for free from a friend they arent that great, and i have a buddy who has a label and says he is willing to put out my projects on cd's..

but i heard bad things about pre sonus stuff like you get what you pay for basically, even though someone is putting out my work on CD from their studio i still want to set up a home one and your advice has really helped but I still have a problem i didnt realize until now..

with the maschine it has "send midi clock" and this Boss SL-20 slicer has a midi out that says it can sync with an external device like maschine but the only midi cable i have is what came with my POD 2.0 and it has the required midi connectors but it also has what looks like a printer dongle attached on two ends (long and slender it looks like either a printer cable both are male) so i left the detatched cause theres nothing on my maschine or the SL-20 that has that kind of connectors..

but its not working with the midi sync functionality maybe i need a different cable because when i set the BPM in maschine with it hooked up to the SL-20 the maschine of course changes bpm but the SL-20 doesnt, the SL-20 manual says when its in midi sync mode that it wont let me adjust the tempo and i can tell its not working because its letting me dial in a tempo on the SL-20, seperate from that which i set in maschine. i'm guessing i got the wrong midi cable because i know its hooked up right thers only one place to hook them up, the USB looking cable from the maschine goes to the pc then a midi cable from maschine to the Sl-20.. still doesnt wor though..


as far as the fidelity my soundcard has digital out and SPDIF and all that but when i get a audio interface i assume that the interface will bypass my soundcard (imma have to get an interface next because of the amount of gear needed to plug in to record, i cant plug everything into my soundcard of course thats why i need the interface)..


THe eleven rack looked like the most value, i know some of you recommend ableton which i cannot afford and I need something robust and simple (i tried reason and with all the patching in the back i couldnt figure it out) all i could figure out was cakewalk sonar but now its incompatible with my version of windows or my drivers because it flat out wont record even when i set it to ASIO or WDM drivers, it doesnt detect maschine at all thats why i switched to REAPER but it seems too convoluted for me, i dont need a bunch of options i just want something that can record easily and have good fidely and handle mutliple hardware peices like maschine and a bunch of pedals, thats why i wanted the eleven rack because i could do away with all my pedals as it has tons of built in effects)


can you really trust a 60$ audio interface to handle multiple hardware peices and record digitally with higher fidelity? even if its 60$ i'd still need some recording software unless it comes with some and like i said i'm really bad at mixing and learning the software side of things thats why i bought maschien cause it simplified the song making process and its all i can do to use it as a vst in reaper and export as mp3 or wav it seems like no matter what when i try to record multiple tracks it always records EVERY sound/hardware peice into one armed track even if the other tracks arent armed i just dont like reaper cause when i try to just PLAY a drum track and record something else (guitar or kaossilator) it still records everything that you hear into one track and i dont have "what you hear " turned on for recording so it should only record what i have armed but like i said without an interface the only input it sees to record are Front left and front right, and midi and even when i try to record midi it doesnt work all that works is the line in

i'm guessing with an audio interface it gives me more inputs to record from that way i shouldnt run into the problem of recording everything into one track hopefully.. like i'm hoping it will let me record digital with the digital-in or SPDIF or giev me some new options besides line-in,

and even with line in only armed for recording if i have a drum track mp3 playing in winamp it records that , theres no way i can get a single signal record for just guitar or just maschine.

anyhoo hope that makes sense. i plan on getting more instruments and stuff but i'm at a dead end right now it looks like audio interface is the brick wall i'm up against, i did some research and everyone said something different. some say M AUDIO some say pre sonus some say save up a big wad of cash for a good expensive one. i do feel that for the value based on software/hardware offerings that the eleven rack is teh best deal but its just out of my range right now.

so it looks like pre sonus or m audio are my only options ATM or would it be worth saving up for the eleven rack so i could get the software/effects unit in one rack instead of having to buy seperate pedals for effects or potentially runnign out of physical ports to plug things into.

theres just too many options. I just think if i spent more than what quad said (60$ for the alesis) that It would be overkill for anyhthing other than the eleven rack and some monitors since from what i'm guessing the audio interface from alesis or m-audio doesnt come with any effects or good software.


i tried cubase, too steep learning curve. and i know pro tools is more than i need but at least i wouldnt have to worry about upgrading as it has tons of stuff i probably wont need at first but i do plan on expanding to a nice size studio, i mean the software with the eleven rack is basically free if i could get 250$ off the rack itself and not get the software i would but my concern is functionality , future upgrades, sound quality and ease of use. pro tools i'm sure isnt cakewalk but it does come with instructional dvds which should be fine to get me started i just know i cant continue to use reaper and expect to be able to compete with actual real studios..

and ableton scares the shart out of me, yeah its popular but i cant afford it andif i could it looks too complex unless they lower the price and start pumping out tutorial dvds i cant go with ableton. i have windows 7 so theres usually always driver problems of some sort.

but i did decide that i'm going with the KRKs so thats one less thing to worry about now my main concern is the interface, and how to syn maschine midi with the SL-20 and if i got new software for recording i'd have to figure out how to make that sync with maschine and SL-20, the more you add to the chain the more chance of being FUBAR 'd by errors or glitches or imcompatibilities.



thanks for the advice!
matt

 

@mmjarecki, i hope you don't mind me saying this but it might be a good idea if you keep your posts a bit shorter. the reason i say this is because some users read a number of threads in one sitting, and it is easier to digest shorter posts and respond with some help.

anyway, i am now off to have breakfast and then i will come back upstairs with a big mug of coffee and read your posts about slicing guitar parts and the Boss SL-20, because it does look interesting

sowari

 

a perfect boiled egg and toast made from a loaf that i baked last night... yummy!

okay, for me there is no point in buying a cheap Audio Interface, if you are going to record Guitar, because you need to be certain that you will get a good Analogue to Digital conversion.

i have to say, i am quite impressed with NI's Komplete Audio 6 Interface - but might be outside of your budget. Audio INterfaces tend to connect with USB 2 these days.

btw, where did you buy your MIDI cable from, are you sure it is a MIDI cable? i say that because, i know that some cables that look like MIDI Cables are actually made for something else.

have you thought about using Guitar Rig? you can use that inside Maschine and/or a DAW.

when you record your Guitar into Maschine, do you play over a beat? when you slice it, do you use Detect?

in many ways Pro Tools is convoluted. i have heard a few people say that you can do everything you can do in Reaper that you can do in Pro Tools. to be honest, i have looked at Reaper a couple of times, but i never really go to grips with it. i do use Pro Tools LE for some of my Audio editing. but i feel you are doing something wrong in Reaper to get what you are getting.

Re: Sync, maybe buy another MIDI cable, but you should be able to sent Sync out of Reaper, so maybe that is something to try just in terms of trouble shooting.

just to clarify, you have switched Maschine to send Sync haven't you?


anyway, after you decide on your equipment, maybe you should start a different thread about using Maschine in Reaper. you can also do a search, because there are a couple of other Reaper users on this forum.

sowari

 

the midi cable came with my POD 2.0 when i bought it. i've tried syncing it from reaper as a vst and directly thru maschine, neither works. i had the guitar shop look into it they have to ORDER a midi cable, thats problem in a small town dont even have midi cables, they didnt ask what kind or anything so im guessing theres not many different types. sorry about being longwinded, I dont get talk much to anyone about this stuff since its small down so you guys bear the brunt of my over zealous nature. I'm just trying to be thorough, nobody in the guitar store even heard of maschine. i guess thats what u get for calling a place that has trumpets on the wall a "guitar store"

nothing is really "out of my price range" forever, temporarily, everything is but for 600$ i think the eleven rack is a bargain since it has 3 in 1 and includes everything that i need, if i were to buy seperate guitar pedals for all the effects i'd easily spent over 1000$ or if i bought one good mutli effects unit it would cost at least 500$. so i'm either going to buy a cheap one just to get by, or save up for a good mid-high end one. i'm in the middle of a demanding time musicially with collaborations and opportunity submissions and such and i dont really want to dissapoint by submitting sub par sounding stuff but so far people overlook the fidelity but if i want to take it to the next step profesionally i'm going to have to get a better home studio setup. i think the soundcard i have now is capable of recording 96k hz or whatever instead of 44.1 but evyoner still uses 44.1 i'm more concerned with multiple instrument recording inputs and stuff right now i can only record one thing at a time and nothing simultaneously.

I've set maschine to detect, and it doesnt really pick up the transients that well with a guitar riff because of the sustained notes and i'd have chnage my playstyle to be really choppy and the fluidity of my technique shouldnt have to be compromised for maschine to be able to detect the breaks for correct slicing, my guitar teacher would kill me.

the Sl-20 just handles it so much better its really one of the coolest pedals i've seen in a long time.

i dont record guitar "into" maschine i record it with sonar or reaper and then import it because maschine isnt that great at directly recording from line-in.

I tried using guitar rig as a vst and standalone while it picks up a signal whenever i click on all the different amps or effects it doesnt change anything, my guitar still sounds the same as it did before i open the software. so i dont know why its not working i've looked thru all the options/tools menus and theres really nothing to adress, its picking up my signal or it wouldnt show the volume meter bar jumping as i play.

I've tried recording guitar directly into maschine directly over a beat but theres always a delay that screws my timing thats why i record prior to opening up maschine, my soundcard was like 200$ and i set the latency to 40 and it still lags while recording via line-in... maschine is the only one that lags though, all the other software is fine.

I know st.joe is a reaper user and i've send him many Pm's about setting it up and without a tutoiral its just too much for me as far as setting up aux tracks and busses and rerouting channels and stuff. it just confuses the piss out of me. I just annoy them and they give up because i barely have rudimentary knowledge of mixing software its all ican do to just get a signal and have it record. I know its orbust but when it throws all that stuff at you right out of the gate its confusing. i've tried setting up like st joe suggest with like one reaper track for every midi channel in maschine (or every output) and that just never works for me i dont get signals and screw up rerouting and with all the plugins and stuff its just like diving off into the deep in with rearoute and channel sends, like send channel one to channel 4 and set channel 2 to recive .. i can do that, but not understand it and when i do it stil ldoesnt work so i'm obviously messing up somewhere thats why i wanted a robust yet simple mixing software.


I only use reaper atm out of ncessity and the fact its the only one i can get to halfway work. I've tried Reason and i love the sounds it has and the recording process with the timeline thing somewhat simliar to other programs i can do that part but when u have to hit tab and then realize theres a whole back to each effect unit and you have to manually route the virtual cables on the back of each of the rack effects i am once again clueless i've never used a midi patch bay or routed signal effect cables hell i cant even figure out how to record or imoprt into that program and it sucks because it sounds really sweet.

sorry for the long post again. at least i used paragraphs

 

whatever audio interface you get..make sure it has balanced i/o.. i have the Komplete Audio 6 and it is a good range of functionality/cost/quality/performance.

Personally i would suggest to separate out your audio interface from guitar effects.. buying one more pedal, or a plug-in is far cheaper than a whole new interface when you want to fiddle with guitar tone.

FYI there is no reason why Sonar wont work..if you wish to start a thread on this or communicate i can help you.

 

Trust me broh if u dont need extreme midi piano roll support studio one you cant go wrong especially since ur mainly doing guitar. By far the most logical daw I ever used try the demo c it for yourself!
And as for the audio interface i mentioned look at the specs, I record guitar vocals and use vsts it is 24bit, much highter costing audio interfaces has the same specs. Just compare it it really is far from being cheaply built, however if u are in a. And recording multiple things at once u may wana look elsewhere!