MPC Touch vs Maschine MK2 vs Ableton Push 2

Hi,

My name is Tomas, and im from Argentina. It has been like 3 years since i was considering to get into hip-hop production, and now that im decided (and started a basic DJ course in order to start learning the basics), i would like to know which product is the best for me and will better suit my needs for the use i will give it (mainly hip-hop).

It will be much appreciated if you guys could point me in the right direction and showing me the pros and cons, cool and useful features of one vs the other one and wich one would you choose today and why.
The more objective, the better.

Thank you very much!

 

Welcome to the forum tomas. Not really a lot of hip hop producers that post here. Sometimes I feel I'm the only one. This forum is dominated by techno producers pretty much. Check your dm.

 

So which is it ?
DJing or HipHop production ?
If you want something to use to learn to DJ for your course, Traktor would be more suited, if you are more in to HipHop production (Seems like you are on the wrong course) then you need to decide which way you want to work, Maschine and MPC are actually fairly similar and quite oldschool in the way they work, if you had any inclination to record vocals though, neither of these are great for that task.
Ableton is a huge powerhouse that can work oldschool or have all the modern bells n whistles but is tweaked slightly more towards live performance and can be used for DJing to some extent.

 

Yes what too she's said is pretty much how I feel as well... If your just starting out with no other experience I dnt even use this but I ableton is the way to go. It's crazy powerful and with you not having any experience with anything else I think that's the way to go I have Mpc and Maschine so there's my 2 cents

 

Meant tooshka

 

Im more into Hip-Hop production. I mean, yeah... it's definitely my goal. I'm only in this DJ course because I thought that considering I know very little... it was going to help me understand the basics.
When I finish this Course in 2 months, I will start the Music Production Course that mainly use Ableton as the main software. I think I will learn a lot, and more focused on what I want to do.

So yeah, the question of the thread is... which one is the best for "music production". I'm not thinking of DJing in the near future..

 

As a beginner, I think maschine is more accesible than ableton. But you're going to take an ableton course, seems like the decision has been made already.

 

I produce hiphop and triphop. And I believe that it will be easier for you to produce in the daw that you learn to produce first. I started with reason (WTF? I may be the only one who did that ) and now I am using maschine and ableton. But as you are going to have the course in ableton it will be much more easier to continue in ableton! So in that case I would go for the Push!

 

Anyways, I don't have much of an option here. They do not offer "Music Production with Maschine or MPC" Courses, they are limited to Ableton.
So, If I choose Maschine or MPC, the learning process is entirely up to me... searching around the web and trial & error.

To summarize, what you guys are saying is that the best software right now is Ableton?. And Hardware baise?, which is the best and gives you more capabilities?

I don't know why it seems like the MPC Touch is my first option, because of the capabilities and liberty that gives you the Touch screen... a lot of people is saying that this expanded tremendously their workflow, speed, and ease of use.

But, what it's holding me is the Software. You read all over internet that Akai's Software is garbage in comparison to Native Instruments or Ableton. I want to know how much truth is in this words and what people are saying about it.

Thanks for all the feedback!

 

You might as well go with ableton and push 2, since you are already taking the course. Akai is adding a lot of ableton style features (clip warping, clip launching, audio tracks) in Mpc 2.0. There is no release date and who knows if it will be stable on release.

Learn ableton through and through and at the end of your course if it's not for you then get an mpc or Maschine.

 

I would try the touchscreen personally if i were you, all these people who say it has changed their workflow, well honestly, i can say they obviously had zero workflow before, because having used the touch, it is not the 'big step' forward a lot of these people would suggest, it makes me question their ethics and possible employer.
Try all the systems if you can, if you can't then go for Ableton, your course is Ableton, you wouldn't do a math course with a geography book, would you ?

 

Mpc software was trash when it first launched since then a lot of changes have been implemented so it's getting better. Maschine is a software powerhouse can't go wrong. Never messed wigh ableton I hear a lot of great things about it. As a hip hop producer me personally I stay away from ableton but I'm a little older and set in my ways but the Mpc is extra dope and the Maschine is a monster as well. I suggest u go into Gc and see if u can play around with a few things get your hands on all peices and how they feel. Software wise between Mpc and Maschine I think Maschine takes it but not by much though but that's my opinion ableton looks too complicated for me to even want to attempt it.

 

Sooo, just my two cents, as a producer who mainly makes hip hop/ modern R & B/ dance music, and somebody who has owned Ableton Push 2 and currently owns Maschine.These are just a few things I could think of.

Push 2 Pros:

- Specifically made for Ableton live. (Maschine hardware is obviously made for Maschine Software, but Abletons DAW is a fully fledged-daw at this point. Ableton is such a powerful DAW on it's own, with so many features and tools. You don't even need Push 2 to run Ableton.

- More Pads than Touch and Maschine Studio, 64 to 16. I can't tell you how sweet it was to have 64 chops ready to chopped up. Also, more pads give you more access to more octaves. I'm not a keyboard player, so for me this was great because I just needed access to trigger those notes

- Powerful sampler, with the ability to real-time timestretch. Great for one shots that are a little shorter, because as you increase the pitch (by playing a higher note) the length of the sample shortens when you don't have time stretch.

-High quality build, high quality screens. Can't speak for Touch, but Push 2 is built like a rock. My Studio is still high quality, but Push 2 really has a super tough and solid build.

- Can be used as a live performance tool. Because of Ableton's unique way of handling your patterns in Clip mode, you can trigger your patterns real-time and on beat. Therefore, if you have a bunch of clips already neatly ordered (at least for you) in a an instance of Ableton, then you can do a set live.

-CONS

- Ableton live can be really confusing to learn. Ableton has a super unique way in regards to it's sequencer because of it's clip system. Personally, I didn't like it at all. having to constantly manage my screen size in Ableton shrinking, opening, and closing tabs constantly became a chore.
You can't return the software once you download it, so I highly recommend you try it before you buy it. To have access to all of Ableton's features, like Maxx For Live, you need to buy Suite, which is a pretty penny. Like I said, you don't need Push 2 to run Ableton. so really it can only enhance your experience.

- As somebody who make their own samples, and uses samples alot in my productions, I need to have total control over them. While Push 2 has real time timestretching, changing the tuning is Push 2 of a sample is so agonizing and frustrating that it caused me to return it. Let me explain.
On Maschine, if you have a group of sample schopped up (or even a hi hat for example) if you wanted to pitch up or down your hats when it is in your pattern, it's simple. Just go to your piano roll and change the tuning, or change the pitch on the piano roll. In Ableton, when you have a group of samples that are in your Drum Rack, you can change the pitch, but it has to stay there unless you automate the pitch knob. You can moe a given sample into it's own midi clip and then change the pitch all you like, but it is so much easier in Maschine, everything can stay in a given group, nicely organized on one of your sound pads. While Ableton's technology for finding the transients to chop and time stretch are incredible, the process of handling samples in Ableton is lacking for me.

- Knobs are ABOVE your screen. This makes it a bit difficult to see what your doing. Flat out, Maschine's Browser is just better organized IMO.



- Mo

 

Maschine (STUDIO) Pros

- Honestly, I ca'nt think of many things Maschine does soooo much better than Ableton. That being said, I love making music on it for the most part. For me personally, it is the most fun to get ideas down into. Mostly dealing in hip hop beats like you, having something to touch, using the pads, and manipulating the instruments I'm using and samples I'm using by turning the knobs instead of using my mouse makes everything easier to get my ideas out.

-Easiest and fun way to manipulate samples, bar none. chopping samples manually once you get the hang of it is so easy. Reversing, tuning, pitching, modulating, eq'ing, and adding and routing effects to a given sample or group is so easy. I can't tell you how beneficial it is to the process of having samples having their own discreet effects and manipulation parameters... epecially if you care about having your samples clear. I don't like to make it obvious which music I've gotten my samples from so I manipulate them alot, and its easy to do for me in Maschine. Adjusting parameters to a group, sound, or your mix is very fast and easy.

- Using Maschine's browser, when everything is tagged and categorized/subcategorized is great. and helps you find the instrument or sounds you want. The Layout of Maschine software looks great and it's very easy to get around.

- Some of Maschine's on board effects are things I use in my productions all the time to some degree, they are incredibly powerful. Because everything is set up so nicely, it is incredibly easy to modulate things and automate them (live... though that has problems too). Side-chaining is so easy it's stupid.

-Drum Synths rock, especially when you layer them and add effects to them, they can sound like real drums except you can tweak them.

-Screen's aren't as high quality as Push 2, but they are good, and you can even turn off your TV or monitor to do your work on it.

-Individual pads can be put into piano roll mode, can't do that in Ableton. Unless your clip is on it's own, you can't pitch it up or down when it is in drum rack mode unless you automate it, It's a hassle.

-Pads are high quality and incredibly responsive and fun to finger drum on. Push 2 may be higher quality, but Maschines are way more fun to play on.

Cons

- I know I'm not going to list all of them for everybody, but these bother me the most.

-Buggy way of importing sounds... Having to specifically Alias certain folders so that they get tagged with pre-set effects doesn't work all the time.

- The Sequencer. While getting ideas INTO Maschine is easy, sequencing them into a song in Maschine is arduous if you have alot of variation in your patterns. Even if you don't it can get hairy quickly. Maschine uses Scenes that are a fixed length of your longer group. So If you have a group that is 8 bars, then the Scene will be 8 bars. If you add a group that, say, has 10 bars, your 8 bar group will have the 8 bar, PLUS, 2 bars of the same group, just started over. Because EVERYTHING needs to fit inside the group, you have to make sure everything fits inside the scene evenly (unless you want to have that variation though most of the time you will not).

-Because Maschine uses groups, if you want to, say, take away the drum pattern, or instrument sounds and the end of a bar, or even the middle or beginning of one, you have to go into the group and delete the parts you want to take away. In Ableton, or pretty much any other daw, all you would have to do would be to slide the pattern over or cut out the part you don't want, easy peasy. Not in Maschine. Remember, everything has to fit inside the scene, no exceptions. This makes adding sounds that start on the up beat going into the next bar, which is in a new scene, impossible to add. I can't play a guitar solo in Maschine unless I set the whole scene to be the full length of my solo, because Maschine works with Midi when handling audio clips, not just the pure audio. I can't layer my audio into Maschine in the sequencer.

- Automating is a pain. If you have an automation that you have set for a group, unless you remove it, it will perpetually modulate. So if you have something you've modulated in a group but you only want it on a certain part, you will have to duplicate your group and remove said modulation. You can not automate volume, you cannot automate Master level effects or volume.

-Arpeggiator functions and chord functions on Maschine are useless on normal keyboards. You must buy komplete Kontrol to access these features. You don't need to have KK since you have them, but other DAWs just have a midi effect that allows you to use any midi controller.

- BPM is set for entire project, can not be automated, cannot have multiple BPM's or bar lengths for your projects.

- Can't change color or pads from hardware. No round robin drums for your pads to cycle drum sounds.

- You cannot trigger mutes or solos from Maschine hardware. I can't tell you how much easier sequencing would be, even if Maschine never fixed it's Scene mode "Sequencer" if it was easy to trigger your mutes and solos live and have that be recorded or at least sequenced.

There are more but I can't think of any right now. I've got my beef wish Maschine, but it's still the most fun I've had making music and I feel most creative when I'm using it over any other DAW. Word of caution though; this is just my take on things, and you HAVE to try them in person to see what you like. I think Maschine is intuitive, but many say Ableton is intuitive, and I hate it! It all boils down to personal preference. DM if you have any other questions and best of luck on your search my friend!

 

tomas what kind of music exactly are you wanting to make, hiphop can be an extremely broad term depending on who's using it, for instance there are some people on this forum that think they are the only ones who make hiphop but they actually make pop/r&b lol, so what are the influences and exact kind of hiphop that you're into... this will make the decision you make easier to come by?

 

This is a good point. Depending on what type of hip hop you make, you may not even need to buy Push 2, Akai Touch, or Maschine. I used FL 11 for a year, and I loved it. I would still use it if it integrated with Maschine better. It has the best pattern sequencer and piano roll of all of the DAWS in my opinion.

The thing is, no DAW is going to make you sound better. It may make it easier for you to get your ideas into it faster, which is a huge help. But I can name a list of people who make great beats and don't even use one of those three pieces of hardware your looking at, they only make beats using the software. To me, buying one of these three pieces of gear is something you should look at after you've messed around with a DAW for a good few months and want to keep making music. All three are such expensive investments, I would hate to see you throw your money away after buying one and seeing you hate it. Learning a DAW can be really overwhelming at first.

DJ Dahi, Diplo, Blood Diamonds, MNDSGN, Mr. Carmack,, Ski Beatz- Ableton Live

Bink!, J Cole, T-Pain, Akon- Logic

Boi1da, Metro Boomin, Kaytranada, Same Gelliatry- Fl Studio... pretty much everybody at OVO uses FL studio. It's relatively easy to use and it's so easy to get a dope drum pattern down, even by mistake! It definitely helped me look at rhythms differently.

All of those producers make pretty different sounding music, all within the realm of hip hop.... but don't think that they use those DAWS because only they can make music sound like the way they want it to. It's the producer behind the DAW making it that way. DJ Dahi can make straight trap on Ableton, wheras MNDSGN will make the most Dilla-sounding boom bap tracks with a crap-ton of swing on Ableton. Those are two of my favorite producers who make some of my favorite music, and I for the life of me cannot STAND Ableton Live. It all boils down to preference and experimentation.

 

Not right now... because there's soo much to learn that is pointless opening too many fronts (it would be unproductive), but it should be nice making my own samples of vocals some time (my grandma sings, she could teach me some stuff).
My father plays the piano, my brother the guitar and a friend the bass... obviously, i will be asking them to make some samples for me, so yes, is a must that either of the 3 is good for working with recorded samples... or do you recommend another product for this task?.

Thanks.

 

Yeah... this are some of the artists I like:
Nujabes, Jenova 7, The Cancel, Uyama Hiroto, Sol, Oster, BigBenBeats, Madlib, Fat Jon, Dj Okawari, Michita, Nomak, Arts The Beatdoctor, Emancipator, Bonobo, Quantic, L'indecis, Soulchef, Mr.KiD, Wes Pendelton, Skalpel, Hidden Orchestra, Jazzpospolita, Karamel Kel, Kenji, GYVUS, Breezewax, Dezaulait. , Gorila, Ljones, etc...

 

Hahahahahahahahah! Yeah right...
@Tomas ECK get Push 2 and Ableton.
It's what you'll be learning on your course.
Maschine is not a complete solution as is, and you'll need something like Ableton (a DAW) to make full fledged tracks anyway, so start with that, and expand with Maschine or MPC at a later date.
Don't be fooled into thinking a touch screen makes something more powerful; it's just a nifty plus.
Get Ableton Live and Push.

 

good advice