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Multiprocessor ?

Discussion in 'KORE' started by Alienforce, Dec 19, 2009.

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  1. Alienforce

    Alienforce NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    11
    is kore2 NOT optimized for multiprocessor ?

    Because the CPU meter on the Kore is almost at full but the system performance
    shows like 20% cpu usage and only one core diagram has high level.
     
  2. ew

    ew Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    21,329
    Kore, like 95% of the plugins out there, doesn't multithread. Why? Latency- thread distribution takes time .

    ew
     
  3. Alienforce

    Alienforce NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    11
    The main problem for me is that Kore2 in standalone dont have multiprocessor support since i am using Maschine as sequencer and Kore2 as host and mixer.

    It would be great if Kore2 standalone/host would have multiprocessor support like
    ableton....... It must be possible develop?
     
  4. sleen

    sleen NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    887
    It is

    It is possible to develop. While most plugins are not multiprocessor capable, most hosts are. There is prejudice and inconsistency at NI about multiprocessor use that started with kontakt. The real answer is, they don't know how to do it properly and they will not admit this. Forte, Bidule, Mainstage, Live and many others all support some kind of multiprocessor use. Since NI split into multiple divisions, there has been communication issues that prevents standards across products, prevents proper support for hardware and ultimately causes the lifespan of the products to be reduced. Like the rest of the people who make and use non-NI software, I think that it is possible, necessary and a requirement for a live host. Take a look at the maschine forum and how excited people are for MPC import. Kontakt supports MP, and so does maschine. Kore standalone? Cmon....other hosts do, NI software does. The argument that its not feasable is not supported outside or inside NI. If there is a limit or compromise, it is for the user to decide and they can have a damn option button. But, that might require actually caring about kore on its own and not as a candy store for their fudgepacks. Sounds of the Valley - Sonic Friction! ;) Just kidding...I love scifi and think its a very cool idea of Jeremiah's - demos sound great as well. Too bad about the format.

    MP is way overdue and indicating not a technical limitation but a lack of motivation and communication.

    jonathan adams leonard
     
  5. Kymeia

    Kymeia NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,861
    It is feasible but fully working Kontakt MSP is pretty recent and since it's now in Maschine too I guess Kore standalone would be the next logical choice but possibly something for Kore 3?
     
  6. ew

    ew Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    21,329
    It was in the original Maschine release but it was taken out with the first update due to thread distribution issues. While I'd like to see multiprocessor support in Kore, it'll be a while before it comes if at all.
     
  7. Kymeia

    Kymeia NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,861
    That's interesting. I guess that shows how tricky it is for something that functions as an instrument rather than a standard DAW with tracks that can each be assigned to separate threads. Kontakt used to warn against using multithreading if you also wanted low latency but I guess from the recent releases of a more fully multithreaded version that has been ironed out. Hopefully the approach used for that will enable Kore standalone to be multithreaded too eventually but I suspect it won't be in v 2.
     
  8. Morylory

    Morylory Forum Member

    Messages:
    152
    ew wrote few days ago

    "Welcome =)

    Kore is a host/patch manager that works with all your non-host specific plugins, as well as functioning as an instrument. Kontakt is a sample playback instrument.

    ew


    on the 22-12-2009 20:48
    ew wrote

    "Kore, like 95% of the plugins out there, doesn't multithread. Why? Latency- thread distribution takes time ."

    ew


    What is it then?
    a host/patch manager?
    a plugin?

    In the context Alienforce expressed, it was obvious he was talking in terms of a 'host'.
    So being so obvious, why did you answer crap about a plug-in blah blah..

    When MP support is mentioned, is it not referred to as a Daw or stand alone related issue?

    95 % of the hosts do support MP,
    95 % of host developers dont feel "Latency- thread distribution takes time"
    because within time, they make it so ! ! for their products of which they care a lot about,
    something to do with something called good business ethic (for their costumers)


    you sure sound like them, Do you work for N.I.?

    thats right, "you don't even speak for them, your just a mod.."


    Kore is a host that doesn't support MP unlike 95% of the hosts out there.
    I believe for sure that there are 150 plus employees (sorry 151) at N.I.
    What are they doing?
    I'd have a guess that they themselves get mixed up with their own
    terminology.. 'what is it today hans.. yeah 4sure, its a sampler..

    150 employed.. what are they doing?

    I'm not great at Maths but if they delegate 10 out of that number, ok 11 (ew, your going in too) locked them in a
    small room and said.. 'You will get bonus but first work .. make it support MP..

    Johnny baby mentioned a lack of communication, product life span reduced.. etc..
    I agree!
    They should have on the box ' this is kore ready.. we got internal issues within the camp,
    we dont know what we saying have the time.. er, Why? Latency- thread distribution takes time ."go ahead, take a chance with us.. er, yeah 4sure, its a super instrument.. er
    You have been warned.. blah blah blah, 4sure


    Its a joke.

    looks bad for MP support ... looks good for their fudgepacks.
    looks bad for ew...

    Morylory.
     
  9. ew

    ew Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    21,329
    Ah- it's both a host and a plugin, in case you haven't noticed.

    And, if I were you, I'd definitely curb the antagonistic attitude you've been showing lately. I advise you to read the forum rules.

    ew
     
  10. Morylory

    Morylory Forum Member

    Messages:
    152
    ew wrote

    "Ah- it's both a host and a plugin, in case you haven't noticed."

    is that your best? how old are you btw?

    When MP support is mentioned, is it not referred to as a Daw or standalone related issue?

    You little twist and shout you..




    ew wrote
    "And, if I were you, I'd definitely curb the antagonistic attitude you've been showing lately. I advise you to read the forum rules."


    You helter skelter you...

    N.I. wouldn't want this can of worms to open because of a Patsie..
    who doesn't like me aiding My fellow
    brothers and sisters,
    mamas and papas,
    aunties and uncles,
    How many places can I express My opinion ? My "antagonistic attitude",
    How many ew's are there affiliated with N.I'
    How many N.I.s are there affiliated with ew?
    Its a small world but a big w.w.w.


    Go ahead, restrict My privileges..

    I dare you.



    You can apologize if you want to, , , ,
    now go away.. and let me HELP My fellow N.I community or don't...

    Mory
     
  11. Morylory

    Morylory Forum Member

    Messages:
    152
    ew,
    In the context Alienforce expressed, it was obvious he was talking in terms of a 'host'.
    So being so obvious, why did you answer crap about a plug-in blah blah..

    When MP support is mentioned, is it not referred to as a Daw or standalone related issue?

    95 % of the hosts do support MP,
    95 % of host developers dont feel "Latency- thread distribution takes time"
    because within time, they make it so ! ! for their products of which they care a lot about,
    something to do with something called good business ethic ( for their customers)



    The MP support for Kore has been put on the shelf, at the wayside due to ? ? ?

    Oh yeah.. ew said "Latency- thread distribution takes time"
    I don't believe that..
    Come to think of it .. I couldn't trust that..

    Is this embarrassing or am I missing something?
    The rolls Royce of software engineering developers cant support MP for Kore..?
    I think they can !
    But why is MP not here for Kore?
    Is the answer fudgepacks? could be!
    Is.. the production of the dj hardware/software division to blame for a Kore host without MP support in 2010?
    could be?
    All the attention going to Machine ?
    maybe ?
    Is it a bad manager, director, a bad team leader ?
    bad developers ?
    slow developers ?
    could be !

    Whatever the issue, it is very disrespectful to their customers, to unleash a wonderful
    product and expect it to perform on one leg.. carry the load of the mighty Komplete etc..
    this surely wasn't the intention designed for KOre.. no MPS? and to carry komplete and kompletes ilk?
    without the support of a second leg, a third leg.. this a joke right?
    In My country we say 'this is taking the piss'
    MPS should of been addressed for Kore 2.1.1 update, why was it not looked into
    considering Kores interests for a great Kore experience .
    "The universal sound platform" (The leaning tower of pisa)
    Would MP support enhance a Kore experience?
    Is beta testing Kore a great Kore experience ?
    Its a shame to see whats happening to Kore and being unable
    to anything..
    I'd nearly pop over to Berlin Myself and bring the Kore team round some coffee buns and pizza
    as My way to contribute to a good team effort..
    something is amiss .. I don't mean MP support either ..

    Our current time I believe we are into the third generation of music app technology ..
    Very embarrassing for Kore to be in the low 5% of Daw/standalone's not addressing
    MP support.. How sad, how embarrassing.

    To implement MP support into wonderful Kore would be in My opinion..
    'a make up' for all the lost time costumers have been experiencing
    due to false statements, intimidation and unprecedented cheating (My ref: "Kore ready").
    The degree of trust between the community and N.I. is falling and falling and will
    continue to decline faster and faster if respect for the concept of respect is not taken into account.

    I say, drop the fudgepacks for a day or two and get on to it like yesterday.






    To Alienforce,

    Your answer was a simple no..

    am sorry for this, no not this,

    for this.. oh you know what I mean..

    do ya? wink

    good luck.

    Mory.
     
  12. MartiBlartFast

    MartiBlartFast Forum Member

    Messages:
    27
    Moryglory. I really don't understand why you are directing your anger to EW. As far as I know he is not a NI employee, he does not dictate policy or decide priorities. He is moderating a forum and as such can only accurately answer questions on facts not supposition. Any opinion that he expresses is surely he own and not on behalf of NI.

    So, let's try and get this straight, I believe that EW (EW, please correct me if I'm wrong) is a super-user who may have the ear of certain NI staff. He should not be blamed for ANY NI shortcomings (ever hear of the expression "don't shoot the messenger"?).

    I and quite a few others on this forum have become rather dissatisfied with NI's lack of communication with regards to future plans for Kore. Having said that, I would like to add that in my opinion NI make some of the finest and innovative software available and that is why there is frustration, it has shown us what's possible and we want more!

    In conclusion; Moryglory, maybe you are fighting the wrong war.

    Peace

    Martin
     
  13. fermuscolo

    fermuscolo Forum Member

    Messages:
    26
    Hello, I have been hearing this and it doesn't make sense to me. I'm using now Vienna EnsemblePRO in standalone or like a plugin inside DP7 and works fantastic in Multicore computers. He spreads perfectly evenly the load. In this time that the real updates in processor speed is the number of cores its really one of the most important features of a Host software and or plugin.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  14. sleen

    sleen NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    887
    Forums

    Yeah don't punish Eric for being the only one that replies. He is not a patsie and the topic is controversial. If you really want an official non-answer you can contact NI tech support. And if you want to participate in a conversation perhaps not limited to kore concerning MP and low latency I might suggest Gearsluts or KVR. Here the focus is Kore but look around man. Its all whitewash and video. Clearly you are not going to get a balanced answer and its definitely not Eric's fault. When you direct things to a specific person, it is considered antagonism. Not that I disagree with anything so far, except the misdirection, but you can sharpen your teeth and stop chewing on my friend ;)

    How is everyone's absolute pitch coming? Another topic that involves distribution and cooperation of multiple areas but certainly OT ;)

    Cheers,

    jonathan adams leonard
     
  15. boombaxx

    boombaxx NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    105
    The problem is Intel and AMD dropping single core cpu,s with enough punch to cope with kore and maschine ie 4ghz plus where are they. 5 years ago they promised 5ghz going to up to 10ghz we are still at 3.00ghz. There is something wrong going on when most apps run on single cores yet intel and amd are falling over themselves to sell multi core cpus which have very few applications. To me this a rip-off more cores do not mean better performance usually worse like for like against a single core cpu. So it,s not NI,s fault it,s greedy cpu manufacturers selling overpriced CPU,s with no real use in everyday applications. To me it,s like having a 4 horse carriage and leaving 3 horses in the stable most of the time and getting the 1 horse to drag the carriage by itself most of the time a real drag:eek:
     
  16. geoelectro

    geoelectro NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    520
    The Ghz stall is a result of physical limits of the processors. It may be a hard limit or a cost vs. sales limit. Either way, it's easier to add more cores and for most desktop applications, it works just fine.
     
  17. Morylory

    Morylory Forum Member

    Messages:
    152
    J.A.L.

    Am not too crazy in love with the N.I team and their ways..
    (you might of noticed that ) fair play.

    Am not too compatible with them who blank these
    ways, (up to them) then turn on me for really just lending a hand to others..
    sorry, not on My watch and I don't think on yours either.

    However, I do feel a lot for the purpose of this forum of which I do believe is
    all about positive discussion, yes I might of lost track there but I'm not to blame
    for inducing it and your friend was certainly other than positive with me, to start with.

    He's got a bad ego problem, yeah, it takes one to know one!

    To your friend,,

    Don't worrie be happy.

    Now I would like to get back to a place I once was, discussing, positively to others about
    this software I really do adore. If I happen to mention words like, 'making music, downgrading,
    'find what works' seek whats compatible and whatnot... I apologize in advance..

    nice talking to you J.A.L.

    Mory.
     
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