My Maschine vs. MPC Renaissance review...

I appreciate your review none the less spidouz, when you write something further let us know

 

Buddy, thanks for the review, but you need to check your manual closely

Maschine DOES OFFER layer editing (Sample tune, Gain, Pan, Velocity). Ok, it's pretty f-ed up compared to the MPC ( I loved JJOS for that), but it does have this.

Also, sample mapping (similar to keygroups in MPC) allows you to have a whole drumkit on a single pad. With the aforementioned limited capabilities though (no effects per sample & stuff).

"- No easy way to “transpose” the 16 Pads when you’re in the Piano Roll Mode (such the dedicated Bank button on the MPC-R)"

Shift + last 4 pads give you the option to transpose an octave or a semitone

"- Missing some hardware immediate controller buttons (num pad, full level,…)"

You do have full level and half level (configurable velocities).

We appreciate the review though, but make it consistent.
---
Oh, I see what you meant by transpose. Changing the key on the pads.

I do that all the time. If you learn the pentatonic & blues scales on the pads, you can get some pretty funky bass lines Check out this song I've made https://soundcloud.com/alexbuga/un-comisar-acuza

Bass is played on the pads

 

Here it comes...

Buddy, before to try to defend your favorite brand, you should read the entire post and try to understand it. It's not an attack, but you're not making a point, you just don't (want to) understand.

Maschine does NOT have 4 sample layers per pad with individual filters, effects, etc... _per layers_ and setting for split, layers, round-robin, etc... Once you see how it is done on the MPC-Ren (or even GEIST), you understand clearly what I mean by Sample Layers per Pad. And not Pads layering and other shitty things like that. Maschine doesn't even come close on that. But it could with a little update.

Also, Maschine doesn't have dedicated 16-Level or Pad Bank buttons. I didn't say it doesn't have the feature, just not the dedicated hardware button. Where do you see a Num Pad on Maschine hardware? Please, entlight me... Because there's no need to check the manual to know there's none, it's a fact. Therefor my comment is right.

 

good review interested in the sound difference u reported when u stated that the mpc ren sound was more glued together and punchy.


do u attribute that to the vintage mode settings which may have been turned on or is it just the typical difference that one gets when using hardware outs as opposed to doing everything in software?

also did u try exporting the sounding in software and comparing it to the sound that comes out of maschine?

 

I'm not attacking anyone, I'm just saying you CAN layer them, and tune, pan, mix and trigger by velocity. But that's it. You can't filter & apply effects.

You said you can't do even this. I was correcting you.

Geez what's up with ppl online... they take everything as an irony...

Also, I own an MPC1k with JJOS, and I know exactly what sample layering is. I also miss it in Maschine.
And also tested the MPC app (in demo mode) and I really love how they translated the functionality. Check my post http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=179640

I'm not trying to attack your blog, but if you state something, make sure it's correct, otherwise you'll mislead people.

 

So if you did try it, you know what I mean by an easy and quick way to layer Drums on the same pad. Using the key map in Maschine isn't a solution, it's a work-around. Also, everything we can't do from the controller isn't a solution to me.

By the time to grab the mouse, edit the key map zone, drag another samples, edit it, oops... You have to select the other one to edit it, etc... It's just time consuming when you can just press a button on the MPC-Ren to select the Layer. That's what I meant...

You're right, at least on one thing, to not mislead people that absolutely don't know both unit, I should have write : "Maschine can't do that... the way the MPC-Ren does".

But I don't like this sentence because every fanboy will reply: they're not supposed to work the same way. And they'd be right. Each system is different but for this particular feature, the MPC-Ren is way better. You said it yourself on your post.

I wish in Maschine when we add a sample on a pad that already has one, it would just create automatically a Layer with its own complete Modules for effects and we could edit each Layer from the controller directly the way we do with everything else... And including options to select the mapping of the Layers (for split, Round-Robin, etc...). There's definitely a way to improve it and make it as a real feature and not just a work-around solution.

Regarding the sound difference, it's one thing I try to figure out because you can hear it on an exported mix down file without the vintage mode nor any effect. To exclude the groove, midi timing, etc... I will redo with a midi sequence in Protools that will trigger both the MPC and Maschine, loaded with the same samples, no mode, no FX... And render both tracks to compare them.

I found out that by using the saturator and a compressor/limiter on the master on Maschine, we can be close to the same result. But this is not a final conclusion, so take these words carefully.

 

Good review...

A lot of people have said that the "note repeat" on the MPC-R sounds better than the one on Maschine... do you hear a difference?

Thanks again for the review Spidouz.

 

@HitMan ... I guess it does, since it applies the swing on note-repeat.

Anyway... guys, the way I see it, the MPC app is quite nice for a V1. Let's not forget that Maschine didn't even had PITCHBEND on v1 I always complained about that.

The way I see it, either Akai will catch up pretty quick, either NI has to come up with v2 and a lot of nifty features.

 

Overall a good review. As I have said elsewhere, at this point Maschine is much more stable and useable for me than the Ren is. I hope Akai (and I know it's a gamble) will keep the updates coming. If so I bet a year from now Ren will be a beast. If they don't do the updates on a regular basis, I will sell mine in about 6 months.

I must also say that I do wish NI would answer the Ren with a XXL Maschine.... then I would sell Maschine and Ren and get it. I know NI could/would do it right.

 

great posted, loved reading it man, I share many of the same views on both, I've also been wishing for multi PORT midi in Maschine for a looooooooooooong time

 

Well, it's not that the "Note Repeat" sounds better, it's the overall "Groove" that seems to be done correctly.

I will still make some test to publish files to compare them, but to me, it seems like Maschine has always been too "straight" and "mechanical". I was already mentioning this to NI long time ago, well before the MPC-Renaissance.

To me, Maschine has the same groove like any other computer DAW, which is OK for uptempo electronic music (house, trance, dance, etc...), but definitely not for urban downtempo music (Rap, Hip&Hop, R'n'B, etc...). But when I explained it to NI, they didn't care...

Now that Akai apparently made it right on the MPC, NI might have a look again and understand it goes well beyond the simple quantize grid and/or swing percentage. And it's not about any stupid "Groove Template" like the ones we can find in most of DAW or software such Reason, GURU, etc...

You can definitely notice it on a 1/16th Note Repeat (on a hi-hat for instance). It automatically grooves smoothly like a human on the MPC-R, and less like a Machine (no pun intended)...

I will try to get some files in the next days to show and demonstrate what I'm saying.
---
Yes Bremen, you're right.

Maschine is way more stable and that's actually why I choose to keep Maschine at home (And I also like Maschine software layout better). Akai still has a long way to go to have a great software that will not only works fine by itself, but will also work perfectly with 3rd party software such Komplete, Spectrasonics, Eastwest, Arturia, Waves, you name it...

For this part, NI has a huge advantage with Komplete. They have a software bundle to bring a lot of great sounds (something that Akai doesn't have), but also they have what is probably the standard in the market today: Kontakt

Even if you want to work with the MPC-R, you will probably want to use Kontakt for your favorite Sample Banks... Therefor, NI could have a better integration of Kontakt in Maschine... Something that can't be done by Akai because they will not have access to the source code of Kontakt to make it perfectly integrated.

I also wish NI would come with a Maschine XXL (with 4 Midi Port Outs, some basic audio, tilted screen, a numeric keypad to directly enter value, more knobs and/or faders). That could be a very nice system.

From where I stand (the perfect middle between hardware and software, between old school and new school, etc...), I believe NI is closer to add the missing features I need on Maschine than Akai is close to add the missing features I need on the MPC-Ren, because NI has already made a pretty damn good work.

 

I just did a test.

same hihat. 1 bar 1/16 notes, 96bpm.

MPC: Swing 60, quantize 1/16.

Maschine: Swing 32%... SAME ****. But EXACTLY the same.

I have a theory. On the MPC, when ppl chop samples, maybe they don't zoom and trim at zero crossing (like I do), so the samples have a little silence before, thus inducing a small delay when triggering them.

 

[ame="www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I2Ou0suS1Q"]How to get MPC Swing on the Maschine + Tips - YouTube[/ame]

 

Of course, both product are still good. I just try to point on the PROs and CONs to help people to know better what they're looking for and maybe (very little maybe) get attention from NI/Akai that will fix some of the CONs and finally make a better product for us, consumers and users.

The way I see it, both NI and Akai will end in a pretty similar place when NI will get more hardware features and and when Akai will get more software features.

In the end, we will have two great products with very similar features and it might just end by choosing what you like the most personally... just for personal taste reasons, but not for technical reasons, just like choosing between two really good guitars, or two really good pianos, or two really good cars... it's only a matter of personal taste.

My 2 cents...

 

i take issue with this i cant comment on the note repeat but im sure the inability to get ur drums to bounce is down to the person programming.

again u may be right on how the grid snaps on 1/16 is more bouncy on the mpc but that does not mean its impossible to achieve drums in the pocket using the maschine.


i used to think that the software was a bit stiff and a bit flat but once u get used to how each maschine works u should be able to get the results u want with maschine,

but i will acknowledge that some units in this case the mpc will get u in the right zone with less effort.

 

Thanks for responding Spidouz

So are you saying that Akai was able to transfer the so-called "MPC Groove" over to the MPC Ren?

You know what would be cool... if someone that owns both Maschine and MPC Ren would make a Youtube video of them making the exact same beat on both machine's with the same samples... with the same tempo... same swing settings or no swing... and then add some hi-hats with note-repeat at 16 and 32.

I wouldn't expect them to sound exactly the same but I think we would be able to tell if one has a better "Groove" or a "Funkier" sound.

 

Hit shift control twice

 

In any way it's a matter to get things done or not.

If you are a real producer, you can get **** done with anything you want... regardless if it's Maschine, the MPC-Ren, a Pad Controller tied to a software or a DAW... and anything between.

I was doing music way before Maschine, back in the days of Atari with Pro24 software (even before Cubase v.1.0)... so that's not the point. It's a matter on "how the software works".

We can't really and easily compare them... I'm trying to put something in place to have a demo that would show it, but that's not something you can easily and clearly show to anyone on YouTube video. It's not a black or white choice, on or off thing... it's very subtle.

They don't have the same parameters. For instance the Swing on Maschine goes from 0% to 100%, while the Swing on the MPC goes from 50 to 75. In both case it's just a pure mathematical system to go from binary to ternary... So it's not much about the setting neither. We can try thought with 0/50 and 100/75 settings and even scale it up (for instance for a 55 Swing on the MPC, I often use a 20% Swing on Maschine), but that's more precise.

It's not something you can clearly notice with only one track only. It mainly happens on heavy loaded sequences. I actually don't know yet if the Renaissance reproduce this behavior too, but it was the case with hardware MPCs (60, 3000, etc...).

The only thing I know is that a simple beat made on the MPC immediately groove well... Of course, if we setup the swing on the Master, and then on the Group, and if we add a little bit of compression, the saturator and a limiter we will probably get something similar... But it's much more effort to get to the point.

But in the other hand, I like the fact you can do whatever you want in Maschine... and I don't think there's a way to desactivate anything of this on the MPC-Renaissance.

That's the reason why I wrote in my review that I can't decide if it's a good feature or not. In one hand we can quickly get to the point... but in the other hand you have more freedom to do it the way you want to do it.

So I would conclude that the MPC would probably be better for "beginners" that probably don't know what to do to "make it sound good"... while Maschine would probably be better for "Advanced Users" that know what to do and prefer to have their own setups...

That's all I can say... I need more test to talk more in detail about it.


@intensemojo: It doesn't work, it only puts Maschine in stand-by mode... it doesn't turn off the LCD displays.

 

I'm more interested in how they place samples when there is no grid, swing, or quantized on or involved….. have you tested them in this regard and if so what have you found?

 

Actually no I haven't test. You can imagine that you can't test EVERYTHING in few days only.

But, my guess is that it's not much about the "recording" and where they're placing the notes, but more about the "playing back"... but that's just my guess.

What is disturbing on the MPC-Renaissance, when you have used DAW and Maschine for a lonnnng time... is the way they show the swing on the graphic view. It wasn't much a deal on an old MPCs because on the small screen it wasn't much a deal to look at the beat notes...

But now on a very large screen, we can see the notes that are a little bit off the grid because of the swing... which definitely looks like an unquantized beat on a DAW or Maschine. I know it makes sense for old school users, but visually now I found it disturbing and like the Maschine approach better.