My S88 and M32 don't play nicely together. So what CAN I do with them?

I should preface this post edit by saying that it is aimed more at existing M32 owners wanting to salvage at least some use out the M32. I am by no means implying that it functions the way it should in tandem with a 2nd keyboard!

So bearing this in mind...

If you are in a standalone instance of Komplete Kontrol, yes, only ONE keyboard can be in NKS (plugin) mode at a time and the other automatically goes into midi mode. I own an S88 MK2 and an M32. I guess you could say they "hot swap" back and forth but you may have to reboot the S88 to fix the bridge between the two. Once bridged, if you press the PLUG-IN button on the S88 keyboard, the M32 switches to midi mode and the S88 is in NKS mode. It works the same both ways. When you press the PLUG-IN button on the M32 keyboard, the S88 switches to midi mode and the M32 is in NKS mode.

In the DAW environment, it is a different story and you can only really use the M32 in limited midi mode. And again, restart your S88 to force M32 into midi mode and keep it there. So it is just a question of "What good is my M32 in midi mode?"
Well for one thing, both keybeds are active and in sync and so you can you play both keyboards simultaneously. While in midi mode, the M32 keys are active on the same plugin you have activated on your main keyboard. So more importantly for you 49/66 key owners, this gives you yet another option for controlling articulations. You just have to flip through your M32 octave buttons until you find the assigned articulation keys for the plugin you have loaded. If you have the Kontakt GUI active in your KK instance, you can watch the virtual keyboard and that will make it much easier for you to find the articulations on the M32. Since I have an S88, once I find and toggle the various articulation keys on my M32 (which is in midi mode), I can see the articulations change on the S88 light guide.

So in short, you can play with one hand on your main keyboard, and change articulations on the fly with your other hand on the M32.

If anyone would like to see a video demonstration of this, just let me know. I can also show you how to play a different instrument on each keyboard by use of midi templates and Kontakt.

So paperweight or limited use? You decide! At the moment, it is on my own desk.

 

Hi MyStudioOne,

Have you actually tried this? I wish it was as simple, but unfortunately it doesn’t work as cleanly as you state. If you have two KK keyboards plugged in at the same time, there’s a whole host of conflicts that appear, rendering one of them useless unfortunately. I don’t think any of us are really fussed about being able to use both keyboards in KK at the same time, it’s the setting of a default that’s the problem. For instance, I have an S49 and M32. The S49 defaults to midi mode, all good, but the M32 defaults to the mixer template. As soon as you open an instance of KK, the M32 takes precedence. If you then select the S49 in KK as the controller (the buttons on the keyboard won’t work), the M32 swaps to midi mode. Again, all good. It’s when you then change track, the S49 freezes on the last track and the M32 becomes the focus of KK. Nothing you do to the S49 will unfreeze it. You can’t solve this unless you reboot your DAW. If you wanted to use them both as just midi controllers, I guess this wouldn’t be a problem, but the premium we’re paying for them is for KK. You can’t use them together in the way you stated. Hope it becomes as easy as this, just the ability to default one of them to midi mode! But thought I should add this here incase anyone is thinking of buying a second keyboard without knowing about the problems you’ll be faced with.

 

Yeah I have an S series and an A series (in the shed) because it is almost completely useless to have both connected at the same time. It may work somewhat using standalone KK but when you open a DAW the A series wants to be the "master" and things just don't work even when using one in MIDI mode.

Currently as it stands, there is simply no good reason to purchase a second keyboard. Luckily mine was sent as a beta unit but I was never able to use it for this reason.

 

Yeah, it's not good. My M32 is in the box on a shelf at the moment, waiting to see if it's fixed in the next update. Fingers crossed.

 

Hey guys,

I should have started with noting that they are totally buggy in DAW environment and that the M32 messes everything up unless you leave it in midi mode". But that is enough functionality to allow it to be of some use if you already own it. And upon further inspection, the hot swapping only works cleanly in standalone. I will clarify on the post. Don't want anyone to rush out and buy second keyboard because of me!

 

No worries at all! Just thought it needed pointing out incase someone wasn't aware. The M32 can't even be left in midi mode, would half (quarter, eighth?) solve the problem if you could, but it defaults to the mixer template. So yeah, without them making clear this is the case, thought it was worth noting on here. No disrespect to you at all.

 

It was acknowledged finally last year by NI that it is something they want to address and they are aware of the issue but they said it was not on the cards for 2020 and "maybe" will be in the roadmap the following year. This isn't a product line that propels ahead at amazing development speed and it appears almost all their development and technical teams were working on Maschine+ for the last few years...

This is one of the issues a company like NI has that has many pies to cook and limited chefs. While the quality of the products is pretty decent and I love Komplete Kontrol especially, the time it takes to introduce new useful features and fix outstanding bugs and limitations is painfully slow.

Just have to keep making noise so they don't forget.

 

To be honest, after 20+ years of loving NI, I'm starting to look elsewhere now. Shouldn't have to make noise for something as simple as this, should be fixed on day one. Got a sneaking suspicion that NI know as soon as midi 2.0 comes out, KK is obsolete. Two way communication between plugins and midi controllers will be standard, so no need for KK anymore. Guess that might be why there's such a lack of development. Same with the other software too, Orchestral Tools, Spitfire etc. moving onto their own players, VCVRack for DAWs around the corner. Starting to feel like it's not worth the headache anymore. Just wish Novation or someone would get whoever is designing the look of NI's hardware to sort theirs out, that's the only thing that's kept me hanging on.

 

I have an S49 MKII for a few years now, and I just got the M32 as an additional keyboard solely to take with me on live performances.

I wasn't intending on using it much besides these purposes, but the moment I plugged in and played the first sound with it, in I was like "hey, would be cool if I could use the M32 and S49 in the studio on separate instances inside Logic Pro". But alas, that's not possible, and the behavior is, as stated above, quite unpredictable.

I suspect these kinds of little nifty details can make a huge difference for the end user, so really hope it is on the agenda to add support for multiple hardware devices within Komplete this year!

Same goes for using these keyboard inside Maschine!

 

Surprisingly, using multiple Kontrol keyboards works much better in "unsupported" DAWs.

I loaded multiple instances of Komplete Kontrol into Renoise, and here on the controllers I can select which instances they should use with the Instance button (which is not available in Logic Pro - instead you have to switch instances with the Mixer view).

Using this way to switch you still have manually assign the MIDI inputs to different instances of Komplete Kontrol (and circumvent MIDI focus), but that's a small hurdle for more predicable behavior.

This is actually proper behavior that makes both keyboards usable next to each other, instead of cancelling each other out, as happens right now in Logic Pro and even Maschine.

 

Hello all, any update on this? Was hoping the 2.6 update would fix some of the Logic issues as the release notes do point to better Logic integration. I'm looking to buy a small desktop controller to complement my S61 MK2 and the M32 would be ideal.

I could work around the M32 being able to operate in MIDI mode only, as long as my S61 never gets kicked out of KK or I have to re-boot Logic (the only DAW I'm using). I would rather not have to look elsewhere.

 

Nothing has changed, multiple keyboards do not work well together and i'd add especially with Logic which appears to have issues with even 1 keyboard at the moment.

 

Very unfortunate. I presume there are no issues with other keyboards outside of NI when using KK? I'm also considering the Launchkey Mini MK3 if the M32 is a no go at this point. NI is losing out on business with this.

 

Yeah no issue with a second keyboard. You can map the basic functions via MIDI and at least control the 8 parameters and step through presets. I have an A series just sitting in the shed because I cannot connect it while my S series is also connected. NI are aware of this but with all the hassle of Apple throwing their usual compatibility spanner in the works and updates to Ableton etc, I think the poor kid they have handling all the NI code is a bit overwhelmed, he is probably due to be let out his cage for a stretch by now.

 

Even before 2.6, my 2 S-Series keyboards worked quite well together in Studio One but the M32 not so well and as for Logic integration - well, that is something else entirely. The majority of the updates in KK 2.6 were related to fixing issues in Logic and so I hope you Logic users out there got a big improvement overall.

 

I forget to respond to your query. M32 does take NKS control for some reason but all you need to do is reboot the MK2 to take it back. Once M32 is in midi mode, it stays there and behaves itself.

 

Thanks. For how long will it stay in MIDI mode? Only for current session or one needs to do this every new Logic session? When all working and in current Logic session, no issues around moving between tracks and having the M32 take back control?

I could likely live with a few inconveniences but I need to know precisely what to expect for workflow. Prefer M32 but only to a point of inconvenience.


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Ended up buying a Novation Launchkey Mini MK3 as a result of this mess. Main problem I have now however, unable to use the knobs using KK within Logic. Stand-alone, not a problem.

Anyone know how to resolve this? Tried removing all knob assignments in Logic. Also tried changing input from "DAW" to "MIDI" which solved this issue, though unable to play the keyboard! I'm sure there's something I'm missing.

I posted this question directly in separate post in this forum, though thought I'd raise here as well given others have moved on to other second controllers.

 

Found the solution. Just needed to ensure the Launchkey is in "custom" knob mode. LPX bypasses completely and sends to the KK plug-in. Finally a controller which has no contention with my S61 and KK. No reason NI can't make this work with their own hardware!

 

I decided to swap my M32 with an Arturia Keystep 37, which I'm very happy with now.

I now use the Komplete Kontrol 49 and Keystep 37 keyboards next to each other on multiple instruments in Logic Pro.

To be able to do this, you do have to enable 'Auto demix by channel while multitrack recording' (under Project Settings->Recording). In the channel view you then have to select a different MIDI channel for each instrument, and 'record enable' any track you want to have receive MIDI. On the Keystep you can very easily switch between MIDI channels and choose which instrument to play, and on the KK you can select any instrument you want as well like normal.

Avoid using MIDI Channel 1 in this setup though: it looks like the KK software always defaults to sending MIDI to channel 1 (no way to change this, except in MIDI mode without any KK features). Thus, an instrument that uses Channel 1 will receive the keyboard input from the KK if the KK software is active, even if it isn't selected with the KK software (and your KK selected instrument will receive no keyboard input).

You can avoid this behavior if you only assign MIDI channels to your tracks starting from MIDI channel 2 (and thus skip channel 1 entirely). Then you can select any KK instrument like normal with the KK keyboard or Logic and it works like expected (as Logic apparently uses a catch-all on unassigned MIDI channels and routes them to the selected track).

To conclude, when you work out the small peculiarities of MIDI channel assignments with KK in Logic, this works pretty well, and I can recommend a setup like this to anyone that wants to have one or more extra keyboards connected to their DAW.