N.I ..Any update on the progress of Traktor DJ 2 ?

The predecessors of the current management put nearly all their user base in the closet. New hardware and features won’t fix the underlying problem. Getting the users out of the closet can do this.

What happened to Dj Craze is a good example of this.

The future of dj’n will depend on who can deliver guerrilla dj’n products because it seems like this pandemic is taking an epicycle nature.

Nobody is gonna bring $20000 dollar dj set and sound system to a party that might get raided and all the gear confiscated and put on auction.

It’s just way easier to have gear where festival djs in my country can just plug in their iPhones and play.

All of my mobile setup including the speakers (soundboks) are battery powered, can be set up in less than 5 mins and if needed quickly taken down in 2 mins and operate for 10hrs until I have to switch to a battery bank.

The club analog in Canada this summer will be the many isolated private lakes available for outdoor parties.

But this is how Canadian promoters are thinking now cause it worked well last year.

Just food for thought

 

My thoughts on possibilities for the traktor ecosystem:

- stability is traktors USP, strongly focus on it
- the X1 controller is still super popular, create a mk3 or X2 for 2021, maybe even with a built-in soundcard
- the D2 was very promising, create a new one, but with a jog wheel that can compete with pioneer cdj level
- smart playlist browsing and filtering is crucial,
- integration with a streaming music service is crucial
- integration for streaming the mix directly to the interwebs is crucial

it’s all about bedroom DJs getting their music from online services and streaming their mixes directly to the interwebs. Nothing more, nothing less. Having a decent controller with GOOD jogwheels that can compete price and quality wise with pioneer might win people over.

 

have a look at my Akai AMX mapping. Its a compable to a Z1+X1+F1 in a single device

Personally I just want them BIG. CDJ-style big.

 

Would this work for you?https://denondjforum.com/t/denon-controller-for-sc6000-sc5000-leaked-again/28931

 

cool leak
these are big jogs of course,
but that is not an all-in-one-controller that is tranportable and easy to setup (1 usb cable)
In other words I never had the need or interest for the so-called "J1" single-jog controller

 

Denon is due for a replacement for the mc7000. They are due for other things too.

How about the reloop buddy controller? This would have been good if I could plug in a mic.

I guessing next week manufacturers are gonna start brandishing their products. Hopefully we see something practical.

 

The DDJ-1000 is perfect for me. No need to invent anything.

The only exception is the Rane One, with real 7'' motorized vinyl... looks amazing but only 2x channels
Its also signifcanlty more expensive than the DDJ-1000

 

the pain about Traktor Pro (in my use case): laptops are needed ..and personally I hate laptops during gigs (reminds me to my main job) , i need standalone (expensive) club gear or mobile apps on iPad (bedroom) ... Thats why i loved TDJ together with my S4mk2 and Z1 on road (and many bedroom DJs too), using TPro only if 4 decks needed (e.g. for synced techno mixes) .. So i feel it's a pity or even a shame seeing this NI post (where they sunset mostly the TDJ path, a waste of money again, do not want to know how many $$ this developing cost in past and how many teams got fired months ago) .. sure, the time will come when TPro works on new architecture (mac,win,ios) covering all features on any OS, but that's such a looong jouney i feel. And market (and user) needs will be different too again at this time, competitors are not sleeping.

So i will stay with TDJ1 (on sofa), DJ Player Pro on iOS (on tour), connecting any midi controller (including my self made lol) ... using TPro at home only, and younger folks will jump to DJay and Co anyhow (due AI track seperation, streaming etc..).

And i hope NI will keep TDJ1 and 2 still in app store, many user (including me) love them and use one of both

 

I like being able to prepare and practice from the comfort of my bed and from my car or from anywhere.

I’m looking at pioneer’s s7 mixer for my road setup. It’s small and djs from different platforms can swap. I’ve done iOS swapping with my x1850 but it’s too big and has no practical midi controls.

How hard would it be to map the s7 to djpp btw?

 

tortally same me. TDJ on sofa/bed makes fun (not in cars during driving !! ), and what i like most: i also prepare (grid & 8 hotcues) for all of my songs ONLY in TDJ1 (and S4), so precise, powerful and easy to use (compared to TPro) .. and export my meta data later on to TPro or DJPP , so TDJ is my song mastering tool, not TPro)

good question, i never thought about a Pio S7, interesting .. i do not know anybody who ever tried (just checked in the DJPP slack user forum), it's important that the device is midi class compliant (as iOS does not allow to install any driver. But at least found a comment here, seems it is (but should be confirmed): https://www.digitaldjtips.com/2021/01/pioneer-dj-djm-s7-scratch-mixer-all-you-need-to-know/

and he next issue: is the souundcard inside S7 iOS comatible ? i don't know.

if 2 yes (compliant and soundcard working) it could be interesting to map in DJPP, the midi mapping featurs there are quite powerful (of course not as powerful as in TPro e.g. no modifier, no multi commands on controls, limited midi output features/LED etc..) .. but the (+) in DJPP midi mapping: so easy (short learning curve), powerful multi-deck mappings done in few hours.

 

I started a mapping in djpp for my sc5000m just for fun. Too bad there isn’t hybrid mode for it yet. I think there is enough available in djpp in regards to mapping the s7. As to class compliance I will have to take a test drive first to find out.

 

that denon jog wheel could single handley save traktor as you could use any mixer wth it and make a truly pro set up, but my guess is it will come and go just like everything else that passed traktor users by. will need proper hid control not some half assed mapping with a spongey jog wheel.

 

That’s the holy grail of dj software... wave playhead control.

 

i mapped a lot of jogwheels (at least in DJPP) all via midi protocoll, had never any issues (damn precious), never needed HID for this. Even when i built controller myself (Dark Wheel), my jogwheel firmware fires > 1000 messages/turn (ticks per turn), more than any finger can distinguish, and my C++ code (in firmware) told me that each single message got acknowledged from DJ app. I made even stronger tests: i build dynamic accelerations in jogwheel firmware (2000 tpt on slow cue adjustments and >2000 on speedy dials (for smooth and fast song scolling in hundreds of songs in track browser), works damn cool. My take aways was: many jogwheel do a bad job i feel, but its not because the midi protocol (they are not build best in mechanical a/o resolution a/o basic firmware only), HID makes of course a lot of sense for enhanced features (e.g. triggering inbuit displays, scrolling waves etc .. but not needed for any controls or jogwheels), just my coin, maybe other folks think different. So i hope (and assume) Denon did a good job with their jogwheel implementation

 

Nobody not even pioneer could map a jogwheel that works 100% with traktor unless it was HID certified. So i doubt you have been able to do it even though you think you have. sure you can search and pitch bend but you definatley can not scratch with your solution in real time.

 

I did not lose any bit, so i am sure the communication works (on any minor & major turn movements). The question is more what happens inside of Traktor: why do we think Trakor is struggling with midi on this, or asking the other way around: what's the difference in information in HID protocoll, which bits are missed in native midi stream. Get me right, I do not doubt in your opinion .. but i hear this argument often and nobody can explain me or giving tech details why Traktor needs HID for jogwheels. Does Traktor forget and lose fast incoming midi inbound messages, any ideas ?

 

Very good - you are not losing messages.
But that can simply be because you have a very large buffer.

Did you made any latency meaurements? preferable one-way-delay, or at least round-trip-times?
Because that is what matters in the end:
a) DJ hand moves
b) MIDI: controller to traktor
c) CPU: traktor processing
d) AUDIO: traktor to controller audio card
e) DJ listens via speakers


Background info:
Pioneer made money for many years selling DDJ-SZ/SX2/etc traktor-compatible that work with MIDI jogs.
They are too slow for turntablists. They are bearable for other guys.

Serato was of course HID. VirtualDJ followed immediatly with HID. I still have a VDJ license that came with my SZ.
Later rekordbox performance followed, with HID of course.

I'm maitaining the Pioneer map updated for all DDJs, and added BOME in the mix to improve the jogswheels (besides many other things).
After years of efforts, in 2021 this is still not appropriate for turntablists.
https://maps.djtechtools.com/mappings/9279
https://maps.djtechtools.com/mappings/9222

 

HID lets dedicated messaging meanwhile midi relies on what it has (the sysex 14bits were created for the future but they seem not enough but I still don’t know why).
Long ago there were discussions about this and usb/firewire etc...


Otoh Traktor was coded with timecode in mind and only put effort on their own (or licensed) controllers as dj_estrela pointed. Back in the day with the cdx arduino midification my pal Norbert told me teensy work flawless but the problems come with protocol so the best approach will be code an app side to side with motorized controller... and we left the idea until recently I came back and try to see if now things are better... but my actual approach will be hybrid mode. If someone wants to join me with HID coding knwoledge we can tinker things.

 

interesting info, thanks for the details dj_estrela

to your buffer/latency issue: i made exactly the opposite, i forced my midi controller firmware to send midi immidiatly (no buffering at all), using any buffering is a nightmare for jogwheels. Since i did this my jogwheels work smooth, exactly and tight to the finger .. maybe many controller vendor buffer too much which ends in the situation that they send mid messages in bulks and jogwheel feels fuzzy. But of course this could overwelm DJ apps with old fashioned architecture, and we know Traktor is strugggling on this. Maybe thats why HID works better in Traktor. This btw .. (coming back to the original title of this thread) ...

... was my hope when they started with TDJ as a blueprint for new architecture. - hoped NI starts (in a step-by-step approch) with a new, proper, modular (and clean coded) Traktor Pro design instead adding more and more features on top .. but this whole sunset of TDJ gives me the 'feeling' NI follow the old path for Traktor Pro (no invest or teams to redesign), right ? Giving you an example: Using the right tools you can find a cool SQLite database inside TDJ2 for the meta data, even flexible dynamic grids could be stored, really cool .. so my hope was this db will be the future db of the whole new Traktor family (including TPro), the current flat collection.nml in TPro 3.x is still the same old fashioned and limited xml (and without the need to sync meta data via cloud between TPro and TDJ i do not expect a big bang in TPro, but we will see, i try to stay optimistic and hope NI will not push Maschine only)