N.I ..Any update on the progress of Traktor DJ 2 ?

How much latency are you willing to accept?

The best I can get with Bluetooth is 19ms and that’s with Skaa which is acceptable for monitoring audio but communication back and forth @19ms each step, would it still be useful to you?

 

Remaining Relevant in a changing ecosystem is very important and Traktor is on the verge of becoming completely redundant. If they actually worked on proper Linux support it would not only open up another market for their software but allow them to explore the possibilities of Standalone Traktor based units, which GUESS WHAT Run on customised embedded Linux platforms with the software over top (Engine OS For the Denon Prime 4 for example.) so yes, outside of the constant elitist personal bias that's bordering on fanatical unfounded cultist toxicity that festers a lot in this forum against this topic, this is actually a very legitimate and very important issue to explore moving forward.

 

This isn't the regular "NI users want Linux support" but "Linux will let NI deploy embed Traktor". The regular rejection is due there aren't so many "users" wanting that Linux support but there can be some users wanting an embed Traktor for sure.

As I pointed in other topics (and hope aren't these constant elitist comments you point) the fact are:

• It's possible to see in the future a Traktor Embed due M+ success but not totally clear it will be based on the same x86 platform as M+. This last part was stated by M+ developer on video conference which didn't discarded the migration into ARM platform if market requires it. That statement was preApple Silicon disruption.

​

• Due that disruption many more computer brands are considering migrate from x86 platform into custom ARM. It seems the path will be using NVida or Qualcomm but as most customised these chips become the more OS dependency you will find. It's possible to run Linux on M1? Yes but it will be hardly on par vs the OS from the people who designed that chip. In addition these people probably will cut any chances to other OS to outperform them. Think Hackintosh crashes, these aren't "just bugs" or incompatibilities... these are "third party over non controlled environment (macOS). It will not worth the effort in the long run...
• Drivers are a constraint. Look how long is taken for some brands to get these working on M1 chips and there's a market waiting for them. Where's the profit to do that job for Linux? Embedding. Desktop keeps being unattractive for these brands that grow over the djing apps which has its own roadmap, goals, etc...
• NI has the foundation to Traktor on Apple Silicon and also embed. They should take a look in their assets and draw an strategy/roadmap. From past claims it seemed that Traktor was going the Universal App route (so Retina Display support among other "must" features from user base were the first to be implemented on Traktor Dj2) but maybe now there's a chance of porting Traktor Pro 3 into embed as M+. Time will tell us...

Resources for those claims:
https://blog.native-instruments.com/es/asi-se-hizo-maschine-plus/
https://www.pcgamer.com/what-apples-move-to-arm-could-mean-for-pc-and-console-gaming/
https://siliconangle.com/2020/06/26/exiting-x86-apple-microsoft-embracing-arm-based-pc/



Let me quote myself from the other post I mention to clarify my POV.

I agree on great idea about dedicated linux distro (liveCD-like) like Dynebolic back in the day which adapted to the computer BUT debug a distro to made it compatible with each computer out there is a hard task with zero revenue for the brand. I imagine you know how the World works and why Linux is open and maintained... by linux users? (Let's take apart Ubunto or Redhat/Fedora) Because it's linux.​

What I was trying to point is that NI will focus first on embed system than LiveCd distro and develop for a "linux-like" environment will require dedicated machines... which is in essence a Mac (even it's BSD, yes yes) but as "task" for development POV.
Now with Apple Silicon (and before with iPads) NI, as other brands like Serato, had to choose and each decision makes compromises. ATM NI has set a platform (embed hardware) to start delivering standalone solutions. It run linux? Yes, check the video I've posted to understand the decision tree from its developers. Also Qt based software makes it ARM (and Linux) friendly? Yes. I haven't that info (and knowledge) when I answer first time but I know how business are done and why such decisions are taken and that's why I say "it's very difficult to see a Linux LiveCd distro" or "NI will not support Linux as environment because each distro is an OS itself, so NI could do Ubuntu support in the best scenario and only if there's a market (or brand interest) in such effort". It's a business, take it as is or forget about it... also you can contribute in enhance Mixxx to catch Traktor...​

Anyways, we are certainly at interesting moment. Depending on how the World turns and market moves in consequence we will see were the efforts will be deployed. IMHO Desktop/Laptops as we known them are doomed (if you want to called it Post-Pc era feel free) since more and more hardware vendors (computers) are wondering the Apple movement into its own silicon as a "path to follow" which also could mean a chance for Linux... it will not be "the year for Linux on desktops" but "the year with no more desktops but Linux"... why not?​

but​

So there are some NI technologies ported to Linux but it's platform (rockchip) dependent and maybe in the future will switch into ARM instead x86 atom (stated at video too) but in any case it will be drove by market and roadmaps. If Linux will have a chance, could it be... but I'm not so sure about "over what machine" we will see it happen. At the moment is embed.

​

I could sound corporative/business which can be saw as cold by linux users (I have two brothers antiApple and proLinux, not just proLinux...) but that's only a perception. I try to put some knowledge on business management and hardware development as part of my own research/journey. I can be totally wrong but also try to look things from all perspectives (first of all the brand so I can decide where to put my energy and efforts instead asking for impossible. Understanding how business world moves can teach you what to expect from these brands. Keeping yourself on the user-rant just brings frustration (not pun intend, IDK if we chatted before, just generalising with the regular prolinux user)... NI still needs to reborn from its ashes and Francisco Partners deal means a lot of things that we still need to figure as users.

So if you think Linux desktop/laptop support will be something interesting for the brand get your efforts trying to explain why and how. NI is listening and you could get surprised but understand that ATM there are priorities over that. If you are talking about embed linux devices then it's more suitable to be something in the future as I pointed.

Regards.

 

Yes, I agree with basically everything here. While I still would love to see a proper port for Linux (kinda works in wine with full MIDI support though sound is still a slight issue so eh) the core of the issue is more about opening up more options for their hardware to a platform they can actually make the most amount of profit from.
Embedded Windows devices require licences which cuts in to margins, this is basically why most vendors go for spinning their own Linux based firmware - no licence > more profit.

Indeed the Denon Prime 4 is a rockchip based SBC module that plugs in to the board (I've seen the FCC papers and there's one sat on the desk near me) I still think that the issue of product market interest is a classic case of chicken and egg. there's no interest because there's no product offering. But no product offering because there's no interest.

I still feel like they could capitalise on the lengthy migration period for many DJ's (Mostly Prosumer/Home ones) who in this weird world we live in right now might be looking to cut costs of upgrading and wish to re-use existing or older hardware until financially able to, for those, honestly having the option to breathe new life in to "EOL" laptops and hardware that's technically capable of running the software but is artificially obsolete by vendor support cut off are looking at ways to revitalise that hardware to get the most out of it..

Speaking as a programmer for a moment:
Linux at the very least will be available on X86_64 long after the world has technically moved on, as for ARM, AARCH64 (Armv8/Arm64) Binaries are the best way to support broader scopes of these processors - Static Binaries/.appimages/snaps (Pick your flavor) are the other way to get around the plethora of varied desktop envrioment, these work much the same as mac .app - self contained images of the application with needed libraries etc. Qt of course we (should) know is already supported, KDE is built on it but other desktop environments still support it, so no changes here.
the rest is basic OpenGL/OpenCL calls and CPP so.. again, they /could/ cross compile, it's just a matter of bothering to do so and if needed making one or two conditional compiler tweaks to accommodate any differences in source between the systems.

But I Digress. NI needs to release a solid, fully featured Standalone system for DJ's that isn't the pre-existing offering. Something akin to the Prime 4 or the Pioneer offerings where the workflow between desktop software and console interface is familiar and not too jarring to work with and offers the features that the desktop software provides. Honestly, the only way i can see them pulling this off is to actually consider this as a path to explore in order to bridge the gap and enter the market properly. If they choose to improve linux hardware support for their existing products like the Kontrol F1 for example, additional or existing hardware like S4 and S2 Mk3 (or Mk4?) they could easily release a "Traktor Device" that lets you plug existing companion devices in to it and use them without fuss. If they made a desktop app run on Linux too? that's a plus.

Existing issues they need to address though? MIDI Mode.. the S4 Mk3 lacks it, and it's a real shame - it's a great mixer neutered by a complete oversight in product design, TP3 is abysmal and barely runs on my Macbook honestly, and it's still an officially supported model so this needs work which they have already admitted is in the pipeline. If they have to ground-up rework the entire program, they may as well consider Multi-arch and Multi-platform at the start to minimise design requirements and maintenance by having a common, broadly compatible code base across 3 major platforms.

This is my opinion sure, but it's one from a position of Platform agnosticism and seeing how the computing industry has been swinging lately has to make you question what actually lies ahead.
A world of dockable tablets and smart watches? possible.
A world of mixed hardware with people clinging to their older PCs running something other than windows? already exists and grows in number.
ARM or even RISCV Based Laptops and Desktops? Already being explored, very likely.
Linux becoming a serious contender in the desktop/laptop space? been happening for 5 years now.. Gaming on it used to be a joke, now the joke is a dead meme.

 

I'm mostly agreed and even that "Traktor Device" could just be an standalone receptor for every controller they have instead put it inside each controller they have (aka M+).

IMHO the problem is lack of vision as you pointed (I said the same about unawareness to M1 disruption but that was before knowing about Qt based and before I found some tools for recompilation into ARM so it seems there are bridges...)

Why don't you postulate at NI? Maybe they are hiring someone with your profile.
https://www.native-instruments.com/es/careers/

 

[QUOTE="
My name is Pedram and I lead TRAKTOR. I’m posting here today on behalf of the whole team.
Please rest assured that we are working hard on the future of TRAKTOR.
[/QUOTE]
Hello Pedram. I am trying to reach you in regard to the future of Traktor. If you read this I would appreciate it if you made contact with me. Thank you.

 

Any updates for Traktor users would be appreciated.

 

It's been over a year since the last update. I know that Traktor Pro 3 has been updated a few times since. Nothing major in my eyes the smart playlist was ok, but I preferred the dynamic playlist in Traktor DJ 2 in the first place. Just my personal preference no disrespect to the people that like to create smart playlist and have been waiting years and years for it. But a sort of parallel update was the original promise from NI. One full year without and update seem very long for a parallel update promise. So is the Traktor DJ 2 project dead?. Where are the promised pro feature integration and the ability to transfer my Traktor Pro 3 library to Traktor DJ 2?

 

As days gone it seems more probable TDj2 is being revamped warpspeed meanwhile Traktor Pro 3 is getting some updates to keep the user base due TDj2 never get any (knowledge base closed, no updates, hardware not selling as expected…)

So in some moment these should merge if not switch but now it seems the approach is From TP3 perspective… (probably old hardware still sells better than the new and also s4mk3 issues with new M1 macs require more focus to keep some brand integrity…) as I said “time will tell us” but meanwhile why not try DjPlayer?
Serato seems struggling with its own issues too…

 

I switched to TP3 and love it. As an event/wedding DJ I find it easy to use and super responsive. I had another DJ look at my set-up while DJing Monday's wedding. He was not a TP user, but seemed really impressed but the program.
My Thoughts
TP3 is as stable (if not more so) than TP2
TP3 just looks Fresh and Clean as compared with TP2

NOTE TO NI - THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX.
1. More Focus on Traktor Pro. - Traktor Pro is a great program, and while other DJ programs are experiencing problems there is an opening. The DJ Program is the gateway to the controller (Pioneer recognized this with Rekordbox).
2. Attract More Users - I started with TP2LE supplied with a Denon HC4500. Consider a Free "Light" version of TP3 to get new users.
3. New Controller - (As I Have Said Before), As an event/wedding DJ there is no NI Controller that is anywhere near suitable for my market. Both the S4 and S8 look amazing, but lack many features I NEED to work. The event/wedding DJ market is large and under severed in the controller market.

 

Why S4 doesn’t match your needs? What missing features you found?

 

The Killer is the microphone input/routing.
1. At least 2 balanced microphone inputs.
2. Dedicated microphone channels (not routed through a music channel)
3. Separate volume controls for EACH microphone
4. Separate on/off switches for EACH microphone
5. Good EQ for EACH microphone (high/mid/low)

For a wedding DJ a minimum of two dedicated microphone channels are a must. Routing the microphones through a music channel (Mixer channel C or D) is useless. Unlike a club or bar DJ, event DJ's need great microphone control (Great EQ, easy on/off, controls). I am using a Denon M6000mk2, and have found the echo/mic feature useful, but it would not be a deal-breaker.

Think about a wedding or event. Introductions, Speeches, Announcements and sometimes even Games. A microphone is an essential tool, not an after though routed through a music channel.

I would also like to see a Zone output with separate volume control, as well as a DJ booth output. We are often required to provide a cocktail, dinner system in a separate area.

 

I wondered… I was looking at Roland dj707m but it’s only Serato compatible and it even seems to have some drawbacks with timecode. NI target user isn’t clear ATM, let’s hope it’s working on get the pro segment again (from the new interest in TP3) but I will not hold my breath waiting for new hardware… there is any single clue about what’s happening on that front aside of “bugfixing” M1 issues with S4mk3, discontinnuing TDj2 (which haven’t support for nothing but S2/3 mk3 AFAIK) and minor updates/compatibility with some new gear like the Rane twelve mk2 (but in hybrid mode…).

Do you know another wedding-oriented alternative to Dj707m? Rane One maybe? It’s Djay Pro iOS compatible…

 

A good and experienced wedding DJ always has a separate mixing board.

 

Not Always true here, I know many good wedding DJ's who just use a controller. I myself use a Denon MC6000mk2, without a separate mixer. I would however agree some "Controller Only" DJs have a small microphone mixer attached to the controller.

 

Mutis

IMO The Roland 707M is by far the best controller for wedding/event DJ's. If there was Traktor mapping available for the 707M, I would already own one.

I have followed comments from users of the 707M, and almost all the negative comments are from users who don't set the controller up correctly. The 707M is a very powerful "Mixer" as well as a controller. Many DJ's are not sound engineers, or understand gain structure, Bad set-up, and not understanding the 707M's features has caused most (if not all) the problems I've read.

 

I have not found any current controller (except the Roland 707M) which is usable in the wedding market. The only option now the Denon MC6000mk2 is discontinued, is to do what Wyley suggests above, and to use a separate mixing board in conjunction with a controller.

While the Rane One is a great controller, I don't think is would work in the wedding/event field, without a separate mixing board. The two manor problems are again the lack of mic features and only having two input channels. For me back-up inputs are essential.

 

I don’t think NI will make a unit with all that stuff. The 707 is probably the only thing that is close and then there’s the prime 4.

The Denon prime 4 works with Djay pro on iOS but the 707 doesn’t.

 

Thanks for the input. Shame there aren’t other options in controller market.

What about the denon prime all-in-one? Have these the mic features? I’m a bit disconnected lately…

Why not to add an arranger-like box auch mlive/ketrons? These are expensive but some of them have mic and fx in the top priority (alongside backing tracks…)

 

Wyley just answering at the same time I was writting… mate we need to create our own forum… :V