NAMM 2008 News'n'Rumours

Let me put in the following...

The SC product wasn't made specifically to accommodate Traktor users. It was made to fill a sorely needed niche in digital DJing - that of a full sized and feature rich controller. Even if you don't like the idea that the SC sticks to the traditional DJ analog, the features incorporated in it are much needed to move digital DJing forward. The things we all complain about regularly - like control resolution and app feedback - are properly addressed in this product. It's also the most flexible controller available right now. Not only are the specific controls remappable (as one would expect), but the controller itself is able to use multiple protocols to communicate with applications. This means that this controller is able to work with both straight MIDI, and also any proprietary control protocols that have been developed (allowing it to be used with apps like SSL). I imagine that it would be trivial for it to add support for things like HUI emulation (if it isn't already supported) for use with apps like Ableton.

You seem to imply that the SC is made to add DVS functionality to an app like Traktor. While that is possible by adding the Scratchamp (some interesting stuff on this later), that isn't it's purpose. It's purpose is to replace DVS functionality or to augment it (this of course depends on your application). Some users might opt to use a single platter controller to control decks C and D while using DVS for decks A and B. Or they might use it to control the sample pads in an app like Torq 1.5 or Mixvibes.

As for application support, In the very near future you'll see announcements for full native support in Deckadance and Mixvibes. Others have already indicated interest in supporting the controller and will be added to the roster as the year progresses. I already know of 2 big announcements along those lines.

Stanton is now focusing on the digital DJ. They seem dedicated to breaking new ground and fully supporting the digital DJ market. Expect more hardware announcements from them this year. I have glimpsed the roadmap, and they aren't even close to being finished. I haven't been this excited about a company since FS was released.

Since I found out about the SC, I knew it was going to be a product with limited appeal. But it's meant to be a "flagship" product, and a system that can be built upon. So while this specific controller might not be for you, I wouldn't be surprised if one of their next releases hits your sweet spot dead on.

 

Phil i agree 100%. your whole post is very well written.

I personally think that the stanton thing is boring. the mixer thing is below the zero 4 and the nuo5 and way too expensive. it was almost good.
i am more into using ableton to play out anymore so a controller that is more for ableton is more my speed anymore anyway. (that is why i have not really said much about the controllers thus far.)

 

I think NAMM has not shown its true face yet. N.I. will fall way short. You have M-Audio Torq with Xponent and now Serato with a dedicated midi device that works right out of the box.
Traktor is such a beast how could someone come up with a controller to even scratch the surface of the endless amount of possible configurations Traktor has to offer and Traktors record with updates.
Traktor for me is going more and more in the wrong direction for dj'ing live. I like it in my studio. I can sit down and prepare everything. Its a programers heaven. My prediction is Traktor greastest strength is going to be its downfall and the fact you have all this power but no preset or sample options. Oh 3.3.2 is coming, another power hungry SUV

 

It would be a fatal error for NI to gear Traktor as a studio tool. DJs play out. DJs want a stable tool they can use to play out. If DJs have a reliable tool for playing out that also works in the studio, they most certainly are going to go with that. I can't imagine using one application for studio DJing and another for live gigs. Phil is spot on when he says that NI needs to focus on making Traktor a coherent, usable, stable, reliable, ergonomic, and accessible application before they go on trying any hardware tie-ins.

You want to know why you aren't thrilled with the the hardware available for Traktor at NAMM? If you were a designer and saw what had happened to the T3 GUI in the last several iterations -- not even big-number ones, either -- would you scream and yell over the design changes you'd have to make to stay current? Would you decide, hell with this, I'm waiting till NI has some usable notion of what they want before I invest in hardware production? I sure would. Right now I'm considering myself blessed that Adrian and I abandoned moving forward with the Kombine controller. We'd have taken a serious bath.

 

Dj's spend alot of time it the studio also. Mix tapes, radio shows, etc. My mixing needs in the studio are far different
than doing live sets. Traktor is like a big 747 and making midi changes on the fly at a live gig is time consuming. Even setting the delay to your favorite setting at a live gig takes a few seconds. Naming cue points, Live or Remix Studio? Most everything in Traktor 3 is set up for pre-production.
Basically every thing I set up at home is what I'm pretty much stuck with at a live gig.

 

So your point seems to be that Traktor is becoming increasigly useless as a live gigging tool, and my point is that this is a huge mistake on NI's part. The app that lets you do both is going to win, period.

 

I think it sounds convoluted, and I'm not sure what you're actually asking for.

Traktor is a mess for most digital DJs, especially those looking for DVS functionality who come from a more traditional background. It's a pain for most users to set up. It has a complicated GUI. It has alot of features that are not only unnecessary for many digital DJs, but DETRACT from it's use as a live performance tool. There are also glaring omissions. For instance, Traktor has NMX, but still no "DeckKeyFine" command - which makes mapping deck key to an external controller a mess. There should also be a user definable range to the "DeckKey" command. Traktor has Beatport integration, but the effects are still a complicated mess. Torq has shown us that implementing deck effects can be done properly (especially in 1.5), so why are the effects in Traktor still a problem? Traktor as a DJ application needs to be made more robust and stable, it's GUI needs some serious work, and it needs to be more accessible if NI wants it to be more widely used.

Back to controllers. I wouldn't count on anyone but NI making a Traktor specific controller. I think (like Steve touched on) that this would be a pretty stupid idea. But if NI made the GUI more customizable, it would be easier to mimic the hardware interface of your choice. I personally HATE the idea of labeled MIDI controllers. I think silk screening specific functionality on a given control is defeating the beauty of a MIDI controller, and is why I like the idea of scribble strips. When combined with the MIDI PAGES commands in Traktor, even a small controller can be used very effectively, and functionality can be switched on the fly. But I guess that's why I'm not looking for the best controller for Traktor. I'm just looking for a controller (or three) that fits my specific needs. But there's only been a couple of controllers like that until now. But I'm betting that I'm going to be dancing next year at NAMM, because I can see a whole bunch of people "upping their game" with releases like the SC, N7, and VCI-1B.

 

I guess we do agree then. What I meant is that you have a "different" way of putting things. But I'm assuming that you're not a native english speaker, as that would explain it.

You know, I've said the same kind of thing you're talking about since I first started using Traktor. NI needs to make a software "backplane" (like Rewire) that would allow Traktor to have a kind of plug in capability. They could have a stable "core" application and use this backplane to add functionality. An obvious first "module" would be a VST host. Others could allow Traktor to more tightly interface with other NI apps (like Battery). Modules could also be crafted that would allow integration with other hardware. I LOVE the idea of using OSC because I think having the ability to offload some of the processing to another computer would be huge to some performing DJs.

If you've ever seen the FX Teleport plugin, this is sort of what I'm talking about.

LINKY--> http://www.fx-max.com/fxt/working.html

Oh, and NAMM in Europe? No sir. You guys get Messe, we get NAMM. You can't hog them all!

 

It sounds like a sure-fire formula for getting me to find another application to use, because I don't give a ratsass about turntable functionality. I never used turntables, I don't care about using turntables, and applying all of this engineering to making this technology work like something that's been in operation since the 1940s doesn't make a lick of sense to me. The literalism applied to making this stuff work like turntables is unimaginative and constraining.

 

Wow, nothing like cementing your credibility to the world at large.

 

Yeah, it's really a shame I've relegated myself to the dustbin of DJ arcana by my insistence on innovation.

As for California, I don't show up where you live and p1ss on the tire swing, largely because it's irrelevant the issues at hand.

 

Wait... you just posted yet another insane rambling run on sentence, brought up witches, hiking, and the insignificance of NAMM (apparently being too stupid to realize that just because something debuts at NAMM doesn't mean it was developed in California), and you expect ANYONE ELSE in this thread to take anything you have to say seriously?

I thought you were maybe Swedish or something (no offense to Swedes!).

(see what I did there?)

 

good thing this thread is way off topic. almost stayed on track.
@ nem0nic i would just leave it.
@ signaturex i would just leave it.
@ everyone else have you checked out the spectrasonics vst that was announced at namm

 

Yeah lets get to talking about Controllers and industry directions. The insults stop with this post... OK? There is some huge value here in this discussion but not if we go for everyone elses forum jugular...

Phil

 

I think how Phil summed up how Traktor users fit into 2 camps when it comes to vinyl/jogwheel control was quite accurate, however, personally I've been waiting for something like the SCS.1d since I started using Traktor. For the vast majority of my gigs, I survive with only my laptop + UC33e. The times when I do have the resources to be able to take my SL-DZ1200 turntable with me though, I absolutely love it! I never load up a full track on the SLDZ, just have CDs with loads of samples and acapellas which I can p1ss about with using turntable control.

Using the stanton would mean that I can do pretty much everything I can do with my SLDZ, but keep everything within T3 - maybe have it assigned to one deck, maybe experiment with how it could switch control between decks. Sure, I could do this with TS+T3, but the thing I've been shy about so far with DVS systems is it's always seemed like a very indirect way of solving the problem - the system has to worry about the timecode, and it depends a lot on needles, quality of connections, your vinyl not being scratched - there's just too many factors that could go wrong! Having a MIDI turntable solves all these problems - I can be certain when doing a backspin that my needles are not going to skip. At no point will the quality of the needles or my inability to look after a single piece of vinyl with due care and attention have a detrimental effect on my DJing lol!

Fus

 

Here's something for you to bounce around: Technics is the turntable "standard", CDJ is the CD deck "Standard", but I contest that these will quite possibly will be the last standards as technology means that things will move and evolve too quickly for there to be a standard controller. There isn't one yet and just as you think there is, things shoot off in another direction.

Discuss.

 

I've wanted to reply to this all day but I've been at work.

I totally agree! I think DJing in the future is going to be much more "a la carte". It hasn't been before becasue the technology and will weren't there, but we're going to see in the very near future a BUNCH of performance oriented controllers on the market. We'll also start seeing more complete support for application communication with external devices. A good example of this mentality creeping into the DJ products industry is with M-Audio's Torq. Torq was designed to be used with a Trigger Finger as well (the sample banks and effects sections map perfectly to it's controls). Scratch Live's 1.8 update is definitely made more useful with a controller as well. I really think the next step is DJs being able to choose the physical interface they want to use by mixing and matching pieces to suit their needs. Old farts like me will at first gravitate to systems that emulate a "traditional " interface, while guys like boysteve will be able to put together a system based on their desired workflow.

I also think another motivating factor (besides user customization) is going to be the desired performance. I just got done watching Daft Punk's Alive DVD. I'm a HUGE fan of Daft Punk (and Bangalter in general), but I thought the concert sucked. I found myself wandering off as it played, only listening to the performance. The reason is because at the root of the performance it was just 2 guys standing there barely moving. I KNOW they're doing stuff, but it's not as compelling to me as being able to SEE a DJ mix, or a musician play. New controllers will allow a DJ to retain the desired control while giving them the freedom to be animated. While the WiiJ guy is a bit gimmicky, it's certainly more entertaining to me watching him than it is watching someone like Moldover (another artist I respect and love listening to).