New Preset Format

usually with NI software you get a choice when you fist boot up the updated software.

for instance Guitar Rig 4 asked me if i wanted want to import GR 3 presets. Kontakt will ask if i want a library to be imported.

so, - judging by previous experiences - Massive will probably ask you if you want to batch process now or later.

anyway. if you back up your Massive ksds you are going to be safe.

sowari

 

Thats the conclusion I'm coming to as well - back up the ksd's, run the updated instruments and batch convert, then put back the backed up ksd's - problem solved :S

 

Sowari the concern is that if Massive (and the others) don't support ksd natively any more then they will not load ksd patches - they will either only ask if you want them imported if you try and load them or just say "unsupported format". It doesn't look like they can load them, let alone save in them. That is not an insurmountable problem if we are running the standalone or plugin in other hosts - but it is still uncertain if this would affect the internal versions because a good proportion of the ksd's available for them to load in Kore are not ksd's saved in Kore of multiple instruments, but just ksd's saved in Massive, Absynth or FM8.

I think this is why we are being told not to update the internal versions. I think that is unacceptable though, particularly for the versions that were part of Komplete 6 and 7, as we have a reasonable expectation that they should continue to be Kore compatible and that products we have paid for will get bug fixes at the very least (if not further development). Once there is Massive 2, Absynth 6 and FM9 it is less of an issue as hopefully they will all run side-by-side.

At the moment I think NI have 2 interim solutions I would consider reasonable:

1) The plugins should continue to load ksd's natively in the interim period up until the next full versions, not just import them (in fact I suggested this when the idea was first proposed). I don't care if some users get "confused" frankly and considering the amount of confusion NI (and stress) have already created what's a little more if it helps deal with a bigger problem?

2) If NI are unwilling to do that they should continue to create bug fixed versions of the internal engines with either separate installers or as part of the planned future Kore updates. However this is less preferable to the first option to me because thinking in the long term it would lead to Kore being "closed off" from any new patches for Massive etc that come out - so I would rather the internal engines loaded Maschine and ksd format natively.

 

NI do need to clear this up...but...

it does not make any sense to me that the updated versions of Massive, Absynth or FM8, would no longer load ksds. there are commercially available ksds for Absynth and Massive and maybe FM8, so those people would be a bit annoyed if those could not be loaded

please Keir or maybe even the Kore Product Specialist - can you clear this up, because we are going around in circles here.

sowari

 

It's not just the 'going around in circles' that Sowari so rightly says, it's the fact that we are being treated with SUCH UTTER CONTEMPT.

 

We do still require a considerable amount of clarification from NI and I too would have preferred a solution that allowed everything to run in parallel. Still don't fathom what short sighted logic made them switch so abruptly to the Maschine format, it flies in the face of every software development standard. My feeling is it was a "this is what is going to be done" directive from the top.

Given the advanced place we are on the timeline now, I still don't understand why the information is being actively withheld ... doesn't make sense.

 

Oh I think that is pretty obvious. Kore was a brilliant incentive for getting people to buy Komplete and visa versa. Maschine at the moment is not. Killing off Kore may have been considered "necessary" for various reasons but was also risky in that it meant they lost that incentive, as well as potentially a group of users heavily invested in the whole NI product range. So they needed something else to serve as the new "Core" of their product range and as Maschine was already developing host capabilities it was the obvious choice (even though from our standpoint not ideal). But for that to really work they needed it to happen between Komplete 7 and Komplete 8 or they would lose the window of opportunity, and they needed it to be across the board.

 

I should clarify, when I said "abruptly" I was meaning without thought to applications entrenched in the ksd format (ie kore) There is nothing wrong whatsoever with having "maschine" readable presets, just not at "any cost" to the existing userbase that bought komplete versions, with instruments that remain current in Komplete 8, on the sole basis that it supported the ksd format

 

to start off with can we have an answer to this one question:

Will the updated versions of Absynth, Massive and FM8 be able to load ksds that can be loaded in the currently released version of Absynth, Massive and FM8?

and as the currently released version of Absynth - as an example - load ksds created by Absynth 4, i am presuming that those are included.

sowari

 

sorry - and i don't want to upset Kore users - but i have to disagree.

Maschine has created a whole new market for NI. for a high percentage of people who have bought Maschine, i suspect it was their firs NI purchase.

i know that many of you make your own ksds but i would guess most Kore users only use presets and i would guess that many Maschine users would love to be able to use their Maschine Controller for searching and loading a whole new set of sounds and start recording patterns with them almost instantaneously.

so i would say that the Maschine update is a very good incentive for users to buy Komplete 8, especially those people who just want a huge amount of new sounds to play with.

sowari

 

You've missed my point. I wasn't writing about the update but about why the update needed to happen so fast and why it had to affect the whole product range so fast. Yes as I said the update is a good incentive because it brings the "integration" that Kore previously had, but before Kore was killed off Maschine was not - it may have been some people's first NI product and that may or may not have made them want to buy others but there was not the direct connection between them all in the same way that Kore offered. If you owned Kore you had a direct incentive to buy other Komplete products to open up their editability and visa versa. That is why the undue haste in enabling Maschine to fill that gap by altering the rest of the product range to make it work with Maschine and that is why it could not have been a piecemeal process.

 

thanks for the clarification

sowari

 

This.


NI obviously know how this is all 'going to work' so...

We need them to clarify exactly how this is going to affect Kore / Maschine / Komplete owners who are looking to keep one or more these current without screwing the others up.

This is really not good form after the whole Kore debacle.

 

I don't think NI should be taking so long to hang to an air freshener on this. It's clear that what they're likely to say is going to upset some, if not all, of the Kore base.

Someone suggested earlier that they'll be doing their best to get Komplete 8 pre-orders in with as little negative press as is possible - I think there's a lot of validity to this statement and just think it's a shame that NI seem to think it's OK to keep us in the dark for a month.

I'd quite like to know that should the updates break the Kore/KSD's function then will the forthcoming Kore update(s) fix this issue, restoring the links between Kore & Komplete's integration?

 

Well like I said before if an update for komplete 7 that is not komplete8 breaks compatibility with kore then I will be expecting to receive mashine as a free upgrade or NI will be needing to pay me back for both programs.

 

Something tells me we're going to need some lawyers involved to get NI to do ANYTHING.

 

Na I don't think lawyers will need to be involved.

 

NI has been contacted by a lawyer who is also a Kore 2 owner.

 

Well in that case cool.

 

Bumping this because we need a straight answer to the following question:

If we did update the Kore internal engines with the new K8 versions of Massive, Absynth and FM8 what would happen if we tried to load or save a Koresound containing one or more of the engines - will they simply refuse to load the ksd in the first place, or if they do will they try and convert it or refuse to save the sound (or corrupt the sound even)?

If it is not possible at present for us to update the internal engines due to compatibility issues will NI:

1) Fix this in the coming compatibility update?

2) Continue to provide bug fixed versions of the internal engines (possibly lacking the Maschine support)?

3) Enable them to load and save ksd and Maschine formats natively?

4) Make them proper full updates (eg Massive 2) and thus let us load them as normal plugins (just keeping the internal versions as they are to load old patches)?