New Preset Format

Discussion in 'KORE' started by a1mixman, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. chrys

    chrys NI Product Owner

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    NI should have planned a clean break with version numbers. Absynth 5 in K7, Absynth 6 in K8. Problem solved.

    Instead they have mired themselves in yet another mess at the expense of their customers, a strategic debacle, further hurting their brand.

    They should have listened to RDJ in Tropic Thunder. "Never go full retard!"
     
  2. BIF

    BIF NI Product Owner

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    1,070
    That's a good summary of my concerns too, Gary.

    Sowari, it's getting a little tiring. How do you NOT understand our concerns, even if you do believe they are misplaced?
     
  3. laughingbear

    laughingbear Forum Member

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    WOW..... what a mess....

    :(

    OK, here is another and entirely different, but perhaps valid angle that might concern many. Personally, I just about had it and would like to propose something to NI for consideration.

    I am certain, I am not he only one who bought into Kore 2 as a Kontakt Owner, and nothing but Kontakt in deed.

    So I went and invested into Kore 2 hardware <b>AND</b> Komplete 6 and now my Kontakt upgrades are legally TIGHT UP to Komplete 6, the latter I only bought because of Kore 2.

    Way I see it, I should be allowed now to sell Kore 2, if I can that is, and Komplete 6, except Kontakt which is part of Komplete 6, and retain a full and legal Version of Kontakt.

    Please, do not give me that BS of sorry-no-can-do, you have to sell the whole Komplete 6 and PAY AGAIN for your upgrade from Kontakt 3 to date, ain't gonna happen.

    <b>I am no DJ</b> and have zero interest in machine, traktor or all that stuff. I play keyboards and dont't push pads and buttons exclusively.

    FOR SALE: Kore 2, exchange HW from NI in mint condition & helluva lot of soundpacks & Komplete 6 (excluding Kontakt)
     
  4. i2050

    i2050 NI Product Owner

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    122
    This says it here pretty good. This is info they already know. The fact they aren't doesn't bode well. All hope has been erased by bad decision after bad decision. Only decent decision was to the Kore Soundpacks. However, I haven't forgotten the only reason we got those were from MULTIPLE bad ideas! This is why we won't bet on it.


    And on a side note, I do appreciate what has been done by Keir.
     
  5. theoryzero

    theoryzero NI Product Owner

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    234
    Wow, this is certainly shocking news, but without further details I feel like I don't have enough information to see how this shakes out. Vocalizing our displeasure with the approach they've taken is the smart thing to do. NI's gotta make it right. That said, I'll wait to hear what the details are surrounding these rammifications of updating to the latest versions of our Komplete instruments.

    My stance on the original Kore announcement was that there is much of Komplete 7 that I haven't had time to even try yet, so moving to Komplete 8 isn't necessary for me. As appealing as getting everything in the Ultimate edition is (I'm a completist) I haven't even tried 50% of the new sample packs that came with Komplete 7 since I bought it last fall. I really should explore what I have before I make the leap to 8.

    I also felt the Maschine crossgrade was an appealing price. My stance on that was to wait and see how it evolves later this year. The browser is one of my favorite Kore features, so my plan was to wait until December to see how the 1.7 update works in Maschine before I buy it. I didn't want to buy it based on functionality that is mentioned for a future update but not currently implemented.

    @arachnaut: In the Komplete 8 ad, I believe there is another instance of Kore above the one you highlighted. :)

    @Gary_W: The issue of whether Kore soundpacks will be useable or not depends on how the sounds were constructed. Packs that rely on ONE instrument only and no internal Kore elements (Kore's own effects and the like) generally have presets that are also loadable in their corresponding instrument. I'm talking about Absynth Spectral Expansion, Absynth Twilights, Massive Expansion 1 & 2, Massive Threat, FM8 Transient Attacks, etc. These presumably will still work just fine in the instrument they were created for, but you will lose the Kore controller mappings and variations. Indeed, I can see Massive Threat and Massive Expansion Vol. 1 in my soundbank list in the Massive browser.

    Packs like the Deep series, Acoustic Refractions, Sonic Fiction, Reaktor Animated Circuits have many Koresounds that require multiple instruments and/or Kore's internal effects. There's no way they'll be the same without Kore, they take advantage of the "super instrument" aspect. For instance, I believe most of Sonic Fiction's sounds use a Kontakt instrument and Absynth effect for the signal chain.

    I'm not sure how it works for the packs that are purely Kontakt based. I've never tried to open those sounds directly in Kontakt before. I'd hope those packs came with the NKIs, but I'm not sure.
     
  6. schrage musik

    schrage musik NI Product Owner

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    1,258
    I actually think that NI ought to offer to buy it all back off you. Mine is also up for sale.
     
  7. clementshawes

    clementshawes Forum Member

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    A sentiment I'd like to echo - other people have said this before now, I'm just chiming in (more of) my 10¢ worth (again).

    It must suck to be Keir at the moment. I think we all appreciate that it isn't Keir's fault that this is happening but that as the only conduit to the powers that be, Keir must be getting it in the neck...

    Unless of course it was Keir who pulled the plug; in which case, I'm watching you man... (just kidding btw, I think humour is the only thing I can use at the moment that some updates won't break!)
     
  8. arachnaut

    arachnaut NI Product Owner

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    2,822
    Same with me, I bought a ton of stuff in that sale and I haven't listen to some of the soundpacks at all yet.

    Noted - sharp eyes!


    Now you're making me cry.
     

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  9. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

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    but why would updating to Komplete 8 replace the NI software engines in Kore 2?

    surely the current version of Kore2 has Kontakt 4 yes/no? that engine will not be replaced in Kore 2 by a Komplete 5 engine.

    the time to start worrying is the Kore2 update.... because that is when the NI engines in Kore 2 will be replaced by the ones that are included in Kpmplete 8.

    the important when considering updating to Komplete 8 is to back up all of your ksds, but i don't see why your Kore Soundpacks will stop working.

    what we really need to know is what will the planned Kore 2 update do to our Kore Libraries - Factory and User?

    to clarify.... NI deed to tell us whether the planned Kore 2 update - which i presume will will update all the NI plugins inside Kore2 - will be backwards compatible? if we do the planned Kore 2 update, will we be able to play all out old ksds?

    sowari
     
  10. kb123

    kb123 NI Product Owner

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    1,224
    sowari,

    The time to start worrying has long past. We have been told by NI not to update to the latest Komplete 7 instruments if we want to maintain our workflow, thus any updates have the potential to break Kore. And as we don't yet know the extent of any potential breakages because the information has not been forthcoming, the only safe thing to do to maintain Kore compatibilty is not update anything.

    A lot of assumptions have been made in the past that NI would "do the right thing" and not screw anybody up, but, my confidence in that area has all but disappeared given their kill kore strategy.
     
  11. theoryzero

    theoryzero NI Product Owner

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    234
    It's apparently a complex issue, and we don't really have enough detail. Keir's post is ambiguous, but it appears to only affect the instruments that use the KSD format for their presets natively:

    Purely speculating here, but I'm wondering if he means all the presets (KSD format) will be "converted" to the format used by Maschine and the change is not backwards compatible.

    Possible impacts to the workflow would be that if you create new sounds in one of those instruments after the update, they won't be readable/usable by Kore. If that is the case, another possibility is that editing a FM8/Absynth/Massive sound from Kore will mean you can't save it as a new Kore sound since the updated instrument won't support KSD after the update.

    So, my suspicion is these Maschine updates may render your Kore library to be static. Yes, you may still play all of your sounds, but you won't be creating new ones using those instruments.
     
  12. schrage musik

    schrage musik NI Product Owner

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    1,258
    Which is exactly what many of us DO.
     
  13. Kymeia

    Kymeia NI Product Owner

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    5,860
    Well assuming you did decide to update the engines you should still be able to save a preset from them as a ksd just as you can any third party plugin. You may not be able to then load the ksd directly into that plugin but as with any plugin the ksd loaded into Kore itself should still recall that plugin's state. The irony is that this will make NI plugins no more compatible with Kore than any third party plugin and actually less than some as you won't even be able to batch import from them (except for maybe Reaktor as it doesn't sound like that one is as affected).
     
  14. chrys

    chrys NI Product Owner

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    265
    This right here is the simplest and most cost-effective solution if they had thought about it AT ALL. One final x64 update for these versions and then a brand new version number that is for Maschine.

    How f*cking hard is that to do?
     
  15. digitalboy1

    digitalboy1 Account Suspended

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    299
    A Clear Line of Demarcation

    That was exactly what was suggested earlier on in this thread - several times...

    A clear line of demarcation between Komplete 7 & 8...

    It's a logical solution...

    Clear thoughts = clear actions...

    Mmmmmm :(
    ---
    Apparently it's almost impossible :)

    Well - without the clear thinking applied BEFORE the action anyway .....

    They need to do a course in ideokinetics......
     
  16. arachnaut

    arachnaut NI Product Owner

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    I think that there are thousands of DVDs and USB drives in shipment around the world - or being manufactured - impossible to recall at this point without a significant price. And even if it is recalled, the Sept. 1 date might not be met if the changes take too long to test and validate.

    Even a simple change involves regression testing, what - 50 some modules?

    We need a solution that will fix our software now before these things can get installed. It has to be very simple to test or we won't get it before Sept 1.
     
  17. digitalboy1

    digitalboy1 Account Suspended

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    299
    The Kore Balloon

    Of course there is an even more logical solution for all of these problems...

    NI should never have axed Kore and tried to make Maschine the integrated hub !

    It only takes one small prick in a balloon to let all of the air out :)
     
  18. kb123

    kb123 NI Product Owner

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    1,224
    The thing is that this issue was raised many weeks ago now, and nothing was done about it when there was time to put it right and if NI thought about it at all, they knew exactly what they were doing when the chose to implement it. At this point there is unlikely to be a one solution fits all that can be applied. I think we have to face facts, we are going to lose compatibilty to some extent on or before 1st September if we choose to update
     
  19. digitalboy1

    digitalboy1 Account Suspended

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    299
    Nightmare

    This has been one hell of a nightmare - with a comedy of errors :(
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2011
  20. kb123

    kb123 NI Product Owner

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    1,224
    Be in no doubt, NI will have planned the strategy to cross over to the Maschine format in great detail. The knock on effects will have been well known before implementation started, this isn't a mistake in NI's eyes, whether we like it or not