New reverb

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by alpert, May 21, 2015.

  1. alpert

    alpert NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,048
    I know this is not bug, but it really bugs me:
    the eq section on reverb is REVERSE!!

    You don't pull left to right to hi cut!
    you dont pull clockwise to lower something (lows), do you?
    You should increase db clockwise?!
     
  2. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,263
    Really? Anybody else feel the same way?

    (BTW please be more specific - which reverb).
     
  3. MONOCON

    MONOCON New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Yes there is something wrong with the values.
    Should be a simple fix for NI.
     
  4. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,263
  5. Ambient Noize

    Ambient Noize Member

    Messages:
    50
    same thing applies to maschine's stock compressor - it's a bit awkward to pull threshold down by turning knob clockwise :confused:
     
  6. alpert

    alpert NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,048
    I haven't noticed that, i don't use it very much. But you're right, it is reverse too..
     
  7. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    7,807
    As you said, though, @alpert:
    I appreciate it might be to some users' taste though. But hen it's still not a bug, it's just grounds for an improvement request.
     
  8. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,263
    Seems like it isn't expected behaviour to me.

    Did the previous (legacy) reverb/compressor behave this way or not?

    Is it documented somewhere as intended behaviour?
     
  9. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    7,807
    Well... The manual? :p

    Are the reverb EQ parameters not essentially just "amount" parameters as opposed to each being a more typical frequency cutoff for a filter? So while it might seem odd on the surface, they're just higher value = more effect (cut/boost for low/high or less/more low shelf, dampening, high cut). I can certainly see that particularly the low shelf and high cut could be confusing, but I'm not convinced they're bugs.

    And while I've run into this with the compressor threshold before, is it not just that it's a knob version of the threshold fader in the mixer view GUI, so it makes sense that way? Again, not a bug, just a "quirk".
     
  10. lethal_pizzle

    lethal_pizzle NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    10,600
    Just about to post that. Think the EQs are the amount of cut applied, so clockwise to increase cut would make sense.
     
  11. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,263
    Not out to disagree with people just asking questions most people here are far better commenting on Maschine specific issues than me.

    Again was this the behaviour in the legacy versions or in the previous version? Has there been a change in behaviour?
     
  12. alpert

    alpert NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,048
    Come on!!
    The hi cut, when it is on top left it says: 20 KHz, when top right it says 2 KHz!!
    Lo shelf, you twist clockwise and it goes from 0 db to -12 db :D
     
  13. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,263
    Assuming this is true, would anybody here argue this is expected behaviour?
     
  14. alpert

    alpert NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,048
    I wonder if this reverb is showing these values only to me and you people are seeing percentage (or amount of cut) instead of Hz and dbs?!

     
  15. lethal_pizzle

    lethal_pizzle NI Product Owner

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    10,600
    Haven't got Maschine in front of me!
     
  16. Ambient Noize

    Ambient Noize Member

    Messages:
    50
    well...yeah I won't argue over that but on the other hand it looks like whoever designed that behaviour this way, never had seen other DAWs nor other VST plugins, and on top of it that person thinks that we use internal maschine plugins only. In this scenario it isn't a biggie because you don't have "muscle memory" and you're not used to other plugins or DAWs, but in 2015 where you have basically unlimited access to virtually unlimited plugins which are designed and behave pretty much the same way it is a VERY ANNOYING QUIRK :D.
    Imagine NI going into the guitar market and trying to sell you a guitar with strings attached in reverse order (thinnest to thickest) just because they had a vision. Wouldn't you be a little annoyed by the fact that you just bought a guitar that handles different than 99% other guitars ?
     
  17. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    7,807
    This is true. Until now, I just hadn't paid attention to what the actual values were, but it just worked as expected in that increases in knob amount resulted in increases in low shelf EQing or high cut. However, when you take the actual values into account, it does definitely make less sense, but is still not necessarily a bug as it does kind of follow the convention of more=more from the other reverb EQs. Personally, I don't much care, as the knobs seem to work and do what they say they are doing, it's just preference for their direction.

    As for the compressor threshold, fair enough it annoys you, but the point is that it's not a bug per se. Feel free to log an improvement request for it to be altered though.

    I see what you mean, but your argument is specious and somewhat fallacious. :p
    Also, I definitely wouldn't be buying a guitar that was strung in reverse order without knowing that was what I was buying. Plus, I'm not left-handed.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
  18. theinvis

    theinvis NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,069
    it's not a bug as in an insect that needs to be squashed, it's more like an electronic listening device that doesn't listen to anything but instead plays back a recording of crickets on a constant loop.
     
  19. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,263
    Ok so behaviour below is confirmed, clearly not expected behaviour.

    The rest - debate continues..

    For instance can anybody name an actual compressor with the same weird dial behaviour? I've never heard of a left handed compressor. In recording studios they always worked pretty much the same way for me when you twisted them. Would you say a car isn't faulty if the steering wheel worked invertedly (like a boat?). It might be expected behaviour with a Clown car maybe? If a volume fader in a mixing desk operated in reverse that would obviously be not expected either.

    ... and there's no documentation to point to that says any different.

    Anybody logged it and got any form of confirmation?

    Ta
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
  20. lethal_pizzle

    lethal_pizzle NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    10,600
    Had a play and with the EQ, yes the high cut seems wrong, should be lower freqs anti and higher frequencies clockwise. The low shelf seems right, twist clockwise to increase the effect of the shelf (ie. Increase the gain reduction), although some may not agree.

    For the compressor, threshold also seems wrong to me. Should be anti to reduce the threshold and clockwise to increase it.

    my $0.02
     
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