New S4 MK3; Traktor Pro unresponsive to S4 inputs when Mk3 is the Audio Device

Hi -

18-year Traktor user here & have been using S4 MK1/2 for years. I don't tweak things; I stay "factory". I'm not a newbie. But I'm stuck. Since N+I support is "away" indefinitely during COVID-19 lockdown, is anybody here able to offer suggestions for the following?

I just received & fired up a new S4 Mk3. But, Traktor is unresponsive to button / knob ... actions on the Mk3, ONLY when the Mk3 is selected as the Audio Device.

More details:
- In Traktor Settings, I can select either the Built-In Audio Device (MacOS) or an external sound card (Scarlett 8i6), and everything (S4, Traktor) works exactly as it should.
- If I select the S4 MK3 as Audio Device, then (a) Traktor (/MacOS) beachballs for about 10 seconds while it switches, and (b) after switching, the Mk3 is (mostly) unresponsive. Additional details follow.

Mk3 IS talking to MacOS successfully, because:
- Firmware upgrade was prompted for, and completed, at first S3 connection.
- Device serial successfully registered via Native Access (not sure if this actually requires link to HW, but I succeeded)
- HW is "seen" by Traktor, because Traktor asked (at launch) if I wanted to use it. (Yes)
But, when the Mk3 is set as Audio Device:
- Cue / play / hot cues buttons on S3 do not initiate play
- All slider inputs - temp, volume, crossfaders - are not received by Traktor (no visualization of sliders moving)
- All knobs - EQ / Effects / ... - are not received by Traktor (similar)
Other oddities in this case:
- Track selection knobs DO work, scrolling thru tracks, and loading them on push. This shows that a function that isn't in the audio path works.
- After loading a track, if I try to use the mouse to play a track the play button in Traktor turns green but the track does NOT play (no audio, and waveform does not move), and there's no corresponding change on the controller. I also cannot click a point in the waveform (with mouse) (whether the Play button is active or not) and have playback head move to that location, nor can I (mouse) click a cue to get the play head to move. A loaded track is fixed in position.

None of these problems exist when the Mk3 is NOT the Audio Device. But, I need to be able to use the Mk3 as audio device (several reasons), so this needs to get solved.

I also ran the Setup Wizard, thinking it would whack everything back to factory settings. No joy.

What is set, where, that I'm missing?

PS:
macOS Catalina (10.15.4)
Traktor Pro 3.3.0 (108)
Traktor S4 MK2 still functions fine

PPS - the Mk3 packing box was damaged when I received the unit from the retailer, and the Mk3 had clearly been opened & repackaged. It's *possible* the audio interface is actually bad, and had been purchased / returned before. But it seems odd that this would be the case. (And it's kind of sucky that my retailer would ship me an open box unit. That's a different story.)

 

Try reinstalling the controller editor - it seems to fix a number of weird S4 Mk3 connection issues. Should be an update Jan 20th for Catalina.

 

No joy.

Notes:
- Re-installing the Controller Editor via Native Access failed 3x. It appears that Native Access believes the current controller editor is 2.3.2 (which is what it downloads & attempts to run). (This is a bug; see the next bullet. I'll report this was a bug when N+I support comes back to work.)
- Ran the 2.3.2 install directly (from the .iso, vs. via Native Access), and the point where the install fails is when running install scripts at the end.
- Checked the NI downloads page, and discovered the ACTUAL latest version is 2.6.0 (the January release you mention).
- Downloaded that and ran the installer. SUCCESS installing 2.6.0. (Clearly 2.6.0 is dealing with macOS Catalina changes in security sandbox or something).

Nevertheless, it did NOT change the S4 Mk3 failure, sadly. Thanks for the suggestion, though, Mr. Dingster.

 

Can you set the S4 MK3 as an audio device under MacOS? Close Traktor, and from the Volume options, choose the S4 Mk3 as audio out. Then all system sounds/iTunes etc will attempt to use the sound card on the S4. IF it can't see it here, I'd imagine you do have a duff unit. Only other thing you could try is plugging the controller in to another computer, just to check. Bit of an ask, but you can install Traktor again on a PC and test it.

 

EXCELLENT debugging ideas, my friend. I used to be a Unix OS support person (though it's been a couple of decades ;-) and should have thought of changing variables in the setup to test this. I did some - just not enough.

Bottom line: I think I have a borked unit.

Notes:
- Set the Mk3 as the output device for MacOS; used both macOS Music.app and Beatport Pro (desktop) to play music. No audio out. (Confirmed all volume sliders up, and cross-fader in the middle, just to be diligent.)
- Connected Mk3 to a 2nd MacBook (Air) running macOS Sierra (which isn't as restrictive as Catalina).
- Mk3 would not even appear as an audio device in the macOS system preference
- Traktor could also not see the device
(In this 2nd computer instance, the Mk3 did it's normal "light-up", EXCEPT the "ext" buttons were flashing regularly. Not sure what that's indicating. But I think the fact that it fails all these tests means the device is borked.)

I'm initiating a return/exchange.
Thanks for the help!!!

 

Sounds likely duff. Just FYI, in audio card only mode, both the main out AND the headphone out work as volume outputs, faders and cross fader don’t do anything - check if you’re getting signal through the headphones. Good luck with the return!

However, be aware that the Mk3 /might/ have a timing issue. Mine plays music about 0.04bpm too slow. Still waiting for someone to corroborate this. Only a problem if you’re using an external source into the S4...fine if all audio is routed through the S4.

 

Well, it's me again. (I hope this new comment brings the thread back to the top).

I returned the previous MK3 referred to above, and for a new one. (No floor unit, no damaged shipping box this time).

The new one exhibits roughly the same behavior:

• When S4 MK3 is set as audio device, the S4's controls are non-responsive (except for the scroll knob).
• No track can be played at all via Traktor - whether one attempts to start it via mouse click in software, or S4M3 button.

There is thing that MAY be new (or may be something I just didn't get to last time), which I'm hoping gives me / us something to dig into:

• Set the S4M3 as the macOS system audio device. (Traktor SW not running).
• Play audio in another app (browser, Apple Music.app, etc.).
• (S4M3 audio main out (RCA) is connected to external powered speakers.)

Whichever software is running shows that it's proceeding with playing the audio, but only tidbits of audio get played out the speakers. I recorded a bit of video so one can hear this. See this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3c10nh8cbs50aho/S4M3stutter.MOV?dl=0

I've confirmed all USB & analog audio connections are solidly connected & functioning. And I've also confirmed it is local to this machine; I've got an old MacBook Air running Traktor, and everything works as-intended. But I want this to work with the new MBP for lots of reasons (not the least of which is the difficulty managing collections across machines).

ANYBODY (like, Mr. Dingster ;-) have any ideas of other things I can try to narrow this down? I'm really frustrated that this new $1k piece of kit simply isn't working with my main laptop. It sure SEEMS like a software issue, but I simply can't figure out what it would be and where to whack the mole.

 

That video is CRAZY weird. Have you got any weird sound drivers like SoundFlower installed? (Or something named that way, I forget the exact name but it's some weird audio bridging software for MacOS). Did MacOS pop up any permissions for the hardware on first run? How recent is the MBP?

If the thing runs fine on an Air, it HAS to be something installed on your main laptop that is messing with the audio devices. Any other audio software installed? Any particular hardware you've had running on the laptop that isn't any more?

I'll have a think whilst I'm out on my state sanctioned exercise...but any more information you can add can only help at this point!

 

I'm having similar issues with my new MBP...

Have used my S4mk1 on an old 2011 MBP since day dot, and it's been fine until recently where the laptop lags so much that it can no longer play songs without audio dropouts. So I purchased a new MBP to use my S4 on.

When plugged into the MBP, there are no other options for audio device outside of the MBP. I'm also getting an error stating "check the output routing".

At a bit of a loss to find out how to use this on my new laptop.

 

Sadly the mk1 no longer works under the latest version of MacOS.

You can find the NI statement about this here: https://support.native-instruments....ompatibility-with-Native-Instruments-Products

 

Gutted, I literally bought a new laptop to use my Traktor.

Won't be buying another NI controller as a replacement that's for sure.

Lucky I didn't buy an upgrade of the Pro 3 software too.

 

Yeah - it's not ideal - sadly you can't downgrade the operating system either. I think it's to do with the driver simply not being 64bit which Catalina requires. The MK2 still works which you can pick up fairly cheaply 2nd hand but I would avoid the S4 Mk3, plagued with issues that I myself am having (and can't resolve until NI support is open again).

You MIGHT be able to dual boot in to Windows 10 via Boot camp and see if it works there...but I'd check the compatibility first.

 

Hi, all - I forgot to come back here and update this thread. My solution may be useful to others.

SOLUTION: The issue was my USB adapter (/hub). My generation of MacBook Pro has (only) 4 USB-C connectors. I normally utilize a 5-in-1 USB Hub from Hyperdrive (here's the 7-in-1 that replaced it in their updated product line) that provides 2 USB 2.0 ports, a Mini DisplayPort, and a microSD slot, all connecting to the laptop via a single USB-C port. It has been flawless - until this connection to the MK3.

I ended up frustrated enough in debugging to say to myself "Let me get as basic as possible", removed that hub, connected the MK3 via an APPLE USB-C - to - USB 2.0 A adapter, and ... voila, problem gone.

This was surprising, because for the most part the Hyperdrive products have been super-solid. But, there must be something in the electrical timing between the MK3 and the Hyperdrive that was causing this overload of the USB-bus.

I ended up buying a high-quality USB-B to USB-C cable to dedicate for connection to the MK3. (I later heard from N+I that they recommend Chroma Cables from DJ Tech Tools, but I think mine is high quality enough.) And the MK3 works solid as a rock. (And, by the way, I LOVE the new filter knobs & curves, and the control layout.)

So, if anybody else sees this thread, consider your USB connectivity in addition to your software world.

 

Ah ha!! I always use a direct connection for any audio - I suspect noise from other attached devices causes all kinds of issues for the sound card.

If you could do me a small favour I’d be much obliged - test your timing on the S4? Plug any sound device in to a line in on the S4 and play the same song in your Traktor deck A and (something like) YouTube on the live input on Deck C or D - beatmatch and then tell me if it drifts? I’ve got a problem where sound processed by the S4 is running slightly too slowly. Need to know if this is perculiar to my unit or the line as a whole.

 

Create another partition and install an older OS just for Traktor use with your S4 MK1.

 

mrdingster You are correct. It does drift. The S4 runs slightly slow. I ran the S4 thru an external mixer, and ran it thru one channel and YouTube in a browser page on another channel, and put them both at-volume. Over the course of time, I need to nudge the S4 forward. It started off sounding like a phaser was involved, and got far enough that the beats needed re-matched after about 90 seconds.

I don't know if this is a Traktor SW issue, or a HW issue. I can check my S4M2 later. But early feedback: Yup, the S4 runs slow.

 

Thank you SO much for running this test and confirming for me, this is brilliant definitive proof. I’m really hoping this can be fixed in a firmware update - but this will allow me to (when they finally open again) get NI to investigate properly and admit they’ve got an issue. I’ll keep you updated... I didn’t have any issues with the S4 mk2, so must assume it’s the sound card they’ve used on the Mk3 - hope no other newer NI hardware suffers from this.