New version of B4

Please don't forget that it crashes in Cubase SX under Windows XP, while changing audio buffer settings...it's been confirmed by others.

 

I agree with groovecake:the the upper key tone is too
"squared wood" and harsh,it ought to be,in my opinion,just a little more rounded and warm.
Drawbars'tone is perfect,only the higher ones seem in recordings sometimes a bit more "iron sounding",but maybe it's a mic and Leslie related thing,in fact I think that the "rattling" sound a la Santana
was due to mic techniques and Leslie drive which enphatised high drived frequencies.

only some more polishes I think would be great:

1)a few different Leslies models modeled
2)separate volume for upper lower and pedal
3)more "clacking" release click in lower keys(as you listen to in Barbara Dennerlein's "All that Blues" intro!)
4)more flexibility in CC
5)separated selector for 2nd and 3rd percussion(with dedicated CC)
since they are surely the most used and may interchange within the same song ("Child in time"!)

 

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Then Steffen I report the most usefull I'v gathered from the net :
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Though the software is raved about by many, my opinion, coincidentally
matching another poster who addressed the problem by routing the treble through a Leslie and the bass through a bass amp, is that for a left hand bass playing Hammond player the software is weak on the lower manual bass end requiring boosting and/or flitering with a treble tone or two appearing over the bass note here and there.. I bet in coming upgrades this is addressed (not by my comments, of course).

An issue I had with the software that I have heard no one complaim about, is the fact that there are too many artifacts with a couple of tones in midrange sounding like they have a bass cypher. To me, it sounds like a Hammond needing tonewheel filter capping, though, that is not usually quite hearable when playing at high volumes or in a band mix. If I had real real Hammond with the 'added tones' I would fix it.

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First thing I noticed is the B4 has very weak bass though I am sure there are ways around this with filtering the output or running perhaps in some way Midi channel 2 out a multiported sound card. I am probably overlooking something stupidly obvious but I was unable to get a satisfactory bass out of the B4 with my 2 port out sound cartd (but with 8 virtual channels) Adding a lot of bass in the mixer took away the clean bright treble filter settings to my liking.

What bothered me more than the weak bass on the B4 is the treble harmonic leakage causing a 'treble ring' that even the 'pure' tonewheel option did.
Again, I am probably looking at something obvious to tweak.. The problem is: if you add too much bass on the mixer to bring up the bass, you start to mellow out and make the treble sounding 'blanketed'. I suspect the most enthusiastic players of the B4 play with a bass player. I need a strong and fat left hand bass. One could also use the drawbars pushed in accordingly on the treble, but I would rather not do that.

I have other issues with the B4 samples that, supposedly, I think I read they sampled a 1958 B3. (?) There are artifacts and actual complete low frequency leakage tones in the treble (supposedly to make it sound like a B3, I guess) that are probably due, perhaps, that their organ they sampled perhaps needed recapping, I wouldn't be surprised.

I suspect. In other words, through normal playing the artifacts are not heard but it sounds like a B3 that needs a recap job to me. (I heard offensive tones even on the 'clean' setting. I am use to my cap kited B3, with a Trek SS preamp so it sounds like a new Ao-28, that has a clear tone with some wanted leakage and crosstalk but no sustained low frequencies in the treble and no significant artifacts.

Now, recording directly in my computer, getting very clean recording, I recorded both the CX3 and the B4 the same tune, a jazz tune , playing the exact same notes and solo (thankfully, I can do that: play the exact same notes when I do a tune agaiin due to my classical playing disciplines it works real cool with jazz for tribute tunes that you can recreate a fine recording even the original artist may have a hard time to recreate) with a moving bass, and saved to a wav file then played both files through PA speakers and stood back and listened.

Both the B4 and the CX3 sounded excellant with the exception that the bass on the Korg was much better and believable. The B4 was weak and had the treble ring.

The surprising thing was how almost exactly alike they both sound with the first 3 or 4 drawbars. I would guess without the files being marked a person could not tell the difference beside the weaker bass of the B4 with the treble ring. I had a great clean and definitive recording.

*Now here is where the B4 is absolutely amazing* and beats the Korg CX3. *full organ*. Pulling out the higher stops and using full organ with the B4 through my Mackie speakers with some reverb sounds dynamic and B3 like and fat spinning it up,! Both Leslie simulations are excellant. Both vibrator scanner simulations are excellant but I find the preset Korg setting very attractive.

Though I love this clone, with the higher drawbars the CX3, though very acceptable sounding, has a pronounced digital signature and not enough drawbar blend but, supposedly, the new OS2 will help this and the use of a tube preamp is said to smooth it out. I, personally, don't use full stops that often. Going easy pulling out the higher drawbars solves this also except a little shrillness that the tube preamp fixes and I bet the Korg through a 122 is a knockout.

The CX3 is an amazing clone and those that bash the clones are incorrect. They do today create a good Hammond sound despite their low price. I liked the vibrato scanner a bit better on the Korg though I am told it is even slightly better with version 2 OS, supposedly. I like it the way it is actually.

The CX3 has bit more punch and bite than the B4 and is more aggressive
sounding slightly. The CX3 expression pedal channel will work with the B4 without doing anything.

I am going to take a look at configuring the Korg to have a B4 option, perhaps using Midiox using all the drawbars (2 sets) and controls to the B4, create a midi dump file to load the different configuations when needed and reloading the CX3 settings.back and forth. Like having 2 clones for one.

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I'm looking to get a good external usb midi-card(for my laptop)
and I saw various models and the main differences are the bit and khrz precision. I could spend more and go for a 24bit/96Khrz model
(M-Audio Quattro), but I'd like to know...is the 96Khrz really supported in B4 and makes it a great difference ?(sorry probably its a stupid question as I suspect that B4 is producing only data, so it depends only on the card, but I'd like to know).
Anyone that succesfully made a similar decision ?

Thanks in advance

 

Thanks Solax (and the others too).

 

Preset key emulation

One more suggestion for the next release of this amazing B3 emulation ...

PRESETS
On a true B3, the B and Bb keys of the preset left side of the keyboard are dedicated to the 2 sets of drawbars. Though the B4 has only one set of drawbars per keyboard, the B key does not allow to retreive the previous manual drawbars setting when I come back from another preset but calls a preset. The drawbars setting does not seem to be memorized by the software. This represents a problem while playing in live and makes the presets no usable for me.

In addition, it would have been more realistic, for live performances, to have the upper manual preset keys dedicated to upper manual only instead of general presets (at least with the preset's bank 1). Most of Hammond players are used to change the upper manual sound while keeping the same sound on the lower.

LESLIE
Another suggestion would be to have a dedicated control change for stopping the Leslie. I know that I can stop it with the current version by turning off the two "slow speed" bottons but it is not really useful in a live performance. In addition, on a true 122 or 147, the time to get the bass drum and the horn stopped from tremolo is longer than getting back to chorus. These parameters should be available too.

Marc

 

When I use B4 as an fx,the Leslie effect is,as usual,fantastic,
but Vibrato/Chorus adds a lot of noise to the signal.

 

B4 update tips

I think that the B4's basical tone elements has reached a high level of perfection (only minimal improvements are desiderable ,such as a more "metallic" sound in the upper drawbars etc.-see the previous users' suggestions),and surely the B4's Vib Scanner and Percussion are of stunning quality.
After spending a lot of time comparing the B4 with the "Real Thing", I realized that the new goal should be to add more and more "variable factors",tipical "side effects" of electromechanical sound enginering.
Besides general tonewheel sound,there are in my opinion 2 critical elements which are highly affected by "variable factors":


1) the KEY CLICK tone : I've noticed that the B3's KeyClick has a variable shape going from the lower up to higher keys ( at least 6-7 different wave shapes; maybe every key has its own KC ! ) . More, if you QUICKLY press many times a single key,you'll notice a little KC's volume fluctuation (particulary,there's a descending curve in the first 3-4 key touches ,then a very, very subtle "random" volume and wave shape variabilty appears ).Besides,in the real thing the "Release Click" seems more pronunced.


2) The PERCUSSION too is affected by a little variability factor : in fact , even with good , clean key
contacts,there's sometimes a little delay (perhaps few msec) between the Perc tone (first) and the drawbar tone (late) in a key : this delay is more pronunced at lower"velocity"values and appears esclusively in the same 2 or 3 keys in the keyboard (due to contact idiosyncrasies):
if such an alghoritm will be added to the B4, it would be nice a user's choice concerning the key(s) affected, such as the delay's amount (so that every B4 may sound different in recordings!)

 

Wow. You guys are really into the nuances of this sound. But what about the all-out-stomp-it-to-the-floor-screaming- dirty-leslie sound? That is what is missing here. And THAT is not a nuance.
P.S. I'm still a big fan of the B-4 despite this omission.

 

Leslie simulation

Everything may get better,but in my opinion the B4'Leslie,besides the Korg CX3'one,is actually the golden standard (I've never heard something better,if you get near the speaker it ruffles your hair!!)

 

B4, Farfisa, Roland VK8, EVB3

I dig organs. I haven't posted much on the yahoo clonewheel group lately, but they have some real hammond experts there. anyone building a clone should certainly listen to what they have to say.

i chose the VK8 over the CX3 last summer. I had the first CX3 back in the 80's, then migrated to a hammond XB2, but found it's midi support to be reprehensible. after dorking around with the ROM upgrade from hades, I dumped the XB2 in order to have space for a new organ. Where the VK8 shines is in the Roland COSM amp modelling. to get that gritty, in your face sound, there's a couple of knobs. works really well, better than the korg IMHO. and i really have no need for the new CX3's "alternate organ" settings which don't emulate the hammond faithfully. I also like the dual MIDI inputs on the VK8, which makes it easier to run pedals or control the "second manual" from another keyboard when playing live.

A new version of B4 should improve on the ability to quickly modify the amplifier settings, to "turn up the heat" as it were. also, being an owner of both the additional tonewheels and a farfisa compact deluxe, I'd have to say that not only is the B4 approximation pretty realistic, it blows away my farfisa in terms of playability (the farfisa's volume level differs depending upon which note you hit). HOWEVER, I'd prefer to open up the Farfisa as a separate instrument, and have it look like a Farfisa and not like a hammond. I have to admit, I was a little disappointed with the drawbar upgrade because it didn't modify the appearance.

I've just started messing around with the EVB3. I think the B4 is a little easier to navigate, since it looks just like a hammond.