1. Please do not install macOS 10.15 Catalina yet, as Native Instruments software and hardware products are not supported under macOS 10.15 yet. For more info, please go HERE!
    Dismiss Notice

NI is going to subscribtion based payment model. What do you think?

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Tomess, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,158
    i was just in the apple store today picking up the apple care+ thing and despite the size of the company, and when i last called, they treated me like it was small business and made sure i was content and taken care of. they have an enormous design and R&D budget that is often overlooked. one issue software companies like NI face, is piracy and subscription often eliminates that to a point of being insignificant. when adobe went subscription only, they had to give away the software and price the subscription based on the cost of the upgrades. i think everyone who uses NI is fine with it if they offer subscription as long as the option to just purchase it is still there, and as many said, how can they expect to sell hardware on a distributed retail level with that business plan.

    waves has an interesting way to this, it is completely optional and they sell the software like a physical product with a 1 year guarantee, and after that, you have to option to purchase the upgrade plan that gives you all upgrades and additions. in a sense it is both a subscription and not one. there is also the option to just subscribe to a package, all of it optional to the needs of the user. they also sell hardware, so this would be a good model for NI. instead of paying an upgrade price as komplete comes out, you buy it in advance in a plan and and get access as things are released and you still own the product in the sense of the license like you do now, you are just paying the upgrade price before the next version comes out always giving you access.

    for example you buy komplete ultimate for it's regular price and get all additions and updates free for one year, after that you pay say 200 for another year of that and so one. it is another kind of subscription, more like that of a periodical, and at any time you can opt out and use the software that you own with no obligation to continue. i think many are jumping the gun assuming the worst that it will be the kind like adobe has, like a utility company, and if you do not pay, they shut off the service.

    let us see, but for my vote on it, i would opt out and cease using the product if it was not optional or like that of a periodical
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  2. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    6,843
    So Service Center doesn't work anymore? I thought it could still be used.
    That does make a lot of sense, but on the other hand, it's hard to be a successful company if the product is terrible, at least in the Music hardware/software world. I could be wrong though... I know nothing about profit margins...

    You really think so? I think out of all popular music software companies NI is one the least pirated ones, especially when compared with the ones I mentioned above, every kid on SoundCloud has an illegal copy of FL or Ableton and the younger generation is very, very comfortable with illegal soft.
    Maschine software doesn't make sense without the controller, so there's not much reason to pirate it. DJ's that use Traktor usually need the interface and inspections make it risky to use a pirate version. Komplete is a huge download so it's very hard to host... Individual apps/plugins do get pirated a lot like Kontakt and such... Massive was massively pirated (pun intended) back in the day before Serum came out and all the dubstep kids were using it, not so much now though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
  3. Mac Tinitus

    Mac Tinitus NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    278
    So now I can see what next Hardware comes after Jam and Mk3 :D it’s small , Save and fits in every studio . Oh and its works with usb so perfekt for traveling .
    CCB444BC-F60D-48DF-A103-B2506612630E.jpeg
     
    • Funny Funny x 7
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,158

    i thought all the dubstep kids just got really high and used their iphones to record video game sounds, you mean they actually use software synths... massive if free now with maschine... i am sure every other kid on soundcloud has spy and malware on their computers as well... do you think the people who "crack" those are doing it for free... nope, you pay a subscription to them with your personal data or providing access to your ip address and internet connection, and as well cpu, for other hacking endevours.

    i have seen the live pirated versions, but everyone i know who uses the software commercially owns it. in fact, using pirated software at gigs and in distributed recordings for sale can get you blacklisted here in the sf bay area. not that anybody checks, but it is very much looked down upon that the peer pressure is enough. there is no excuse for flashing a 1k iphone around and then using pirated software at a performance, we have to all pay for that and what subscription, and rent to own, thank you for link to that, i will have to try serum, does is lowers the price so people that could not afford it but need it, can have access to it so they do not have to resort to 'cracked' versions. the rent to own is a very good method.

    on the other side, i also believe that everyone should have access and that profit should always be secondary to advancement of the species.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Mr. RecordBot

    Mr. RecordBot NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    210
    What a joke. Good to see the people behind all this, wasn't sure before that NI actually is 95% Marketing 5% product. Now I am.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    6,843
    That's quite a conspiracy theory. Pirate stuff gets money thru adds and most recently thru crypto-mining scripts that run on the background of infected computers, look it up.

    Kids using pirate software don't do performances dude, they make some beats at home after school. Where would a 13yr get 600$ to buy Ableton? lol...Most professionals I know over 25yr do buy everything legit, everyone under 18 living with their moms steals everything, that's reality. It's funny how adults are so out of touch with whats going on in the teen world... I remember when Deadmau5 exposed a Kanye West screenshot of a pirated version of Serum, that was hilarious as well as Martin Garrix in a Future Music mag official video with 6 millions of views, also Steve Aoki, AVICCI, and many more... But hey, maybe I'm wrong...
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  7. rudynicoletti

    rudynicoletti NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    156
    it will be the end of my relation too. Don't like subscription models. Buy everything I use. I like to own things, so I can use them whenever I like, even without any internet connection as it usually happens on a train, the underground, a house in the mountains or on the beach, and so on. This kind or rumors also hold me back when considering if buying new software or not
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
  8. GameOfDrones

    GameOfDrones New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Goodbye NI. You'll tank just like Cakewalk.
     
  9. GameOfDrones

    GameOfDrones New Member

    Messages:
    24
    This won't do ANYTHING to deter piracy. If anything, it will increase it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Xyenz Fyxion

    Xyenz Fyxion NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    318
    This. ☝

    We want what we want. As much as everyone who uses the Bass Synth now actually enjoys it, most of us never asked for it. And, it isn't one of those things we 'never knew we needed.' I would to this very day trade it back for one of the functions I or others have asked about for years, now. I'm not even going to list any features since there are lists of those lists. Do we have to start a Maschine Update GoFundMe for NI to develop it to what we desire? Should NI start an update-pool that we throw $5 in a month for over the next 6-12 months? NI, we love you. Give us a roadmap, please.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Xyenz Fyxion

    Xyenz Fyxion NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    318
    While most soft companies (including the illustrious Spitfire) allow you to use it, you don't own it. We have a license to use their products. That is mostly fine. But, these days, you only buy access when you buy something. You don't own it, and sometimes you can't change it or do 'what you will.' I understand not wanting someone to copy and sell your product. But, there are even restrictions on reselling something you bought once you can't get a refund. I guess this is just a sign of the times. And, we are mostly left with the notion to 'take it or leave it.'

    I hope NI is listening. Most people would rather leave it at this point. A lot of us are saying the same things. I don't want any more monthly costs. And, even if it's just a license, I still would rather 'own' it. My upgrade path was not linear. I bought a used Maschine MK2 when I got started. I bought Komplete from Sweetwater. We all take different paths. And, even if they offer subscriptions, I vote for that to be an option & not the standard.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,158

    well early dubstep did sound like that: a fusion of poorly sampled video games and psy-trance.... the wobble bass taken from the traditional electric dub bass "wobble/earthquake finger and muting technique" that came out of Jamaica 40 years, before my time, popularized by bands like "the clash" prior to yet another vague genre term. it is simply electronic dance music... get over it, kids.....side dub 4 step down..... yawn... who wants to keep up to all these terms of exclusion.

    I meant, they use your cpu and IP address... yes, the add heavy pirate download sites are the ones that make the big bucks on it selling subscriptions...and if you do a legit search about a software program to purchase or for info, chances are one of them will appear in the search results and will lure you in.... and it is a shame that kids have to use pirated copies of software, it should be given to them and everyone should have access, in the same way we have libraries. my 7 year old daughter questions my adulthood often, encouraged to, and has her own copy and license for live.

    and yes, I hope NI is listening and keeps it optional if it decides to implement it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  13. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    6,843
    I didn't say it would... lol. If you're gonna quote me at least read the context. I only mentioned because ntula said NI suffers a big piracy problem, then kind of said the opposite.

    I give up trying to debate this subject if people want to believe subscriptions will happen overnight, be the only option and are just generally the devil or some sort of boogeyman then be it. I'm out. :thumbsup:
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. District Onagi

    District Onagi NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    882
    Amen, which is why I don't really trust NI.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. rudynicoletti

    rudynicoletti NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    156
    But..is subscription going to happen or not?
     
  16. Tomess

    Tomess NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    363
    Well, if you believe the CEO from NI in the video (first post), then yes.
     
  17. Mystic38

    Mystic38 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,281
    to whom it may concern NI

    1. The reality of business is, if your product is good, people buy it. there is no sales problem.

    2. If NI Maschine is not generating enough money for you, then see #1 above

    3. No, no, it really is that simple, seriously, see #1 above.

    4. Still reading?.. i ended at #1.. just go do that.. ok?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. CH7

    CH7 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    384
    Subscription makes no sense, not when the product is based so heavily on hardware.

    Its not as if the hardware's cost was subsidised, or 'loaned' to the consumer.

    On the other hand this could be about Maschine 3.0 - in which case how might subscription work for those also buying the new hardware.
    Imagine cheaper hardware with the current software as entry level products, with a mandatory subscription for any future version of the software.
     
  19. THE WIDOWMAKER

    THE WIDOWMAKER NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,677
    IF they do it i will be staying on the version i have at the time they implement, it's easy enough.

    NO subscriptions for me thanks, I have been solid with NI since the mid 90's generator days so it'll seem weird and a personal loss not to move forward.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,640
    The foremost prIority for any investment company is unsurprisingly to maximise the return on that investment and presumably by the least expensive route. I'd like to believe that NI do actually have it in them to be the go to product in the market place because of the quality of their product range and an ability to properly utilise their customers by listening to the many good ideas they have and actually using those ideas to improve the products. Whether that ethos truly lives at NI and is supported by EMH at this moment in time is still open to question. Subscriptions for conent doesn't necessarily not sit well with anyone but subcriptions for software as can be seen has no supporters other than if it is optional to allow for an increase in access. Are NI and EMH listening?
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018