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NI is going to subscribtion based payment model. What do you think?

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Tomess, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. The Sarge

    The Sarge NI Product Owner

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    510
    if this really is the only future of Native Instruments, then I´ll not continue supporting them!

    I love my Maschine MK2
    I love my Komplete Kontrol S88
    I love my Komplete 11 Ultimate (and the versions before back to K8 normal)
    but this way I´ll hate!

    Think again about it Mate, we know each other since the middle of the 90s! never thought you´ll go this way :(
     
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  2. Harsh

    Harsh NI Product Owner

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    104
    If the subscription offers an annual deal like $99 per year then I think we will be okay with the new direction. The payment is justified because we have to supplement the costs associated with development.
     
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  3. scheffkoch

    scheffkoch NI Product Owner

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    ???...99 per year???...development???...the best and most attention grabbing move would be to offer the software for free and only rely on hardware, expansion and sounds.com sales...other than that ni first has to deliver...
     
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  4. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    Are you asking me that like I have some sort of inside information to confirm it? Even if I did I wouldn't be able to share it.

    Now if you asking about my personal opinion then that's all over this thread but I can resume quickly: every company the sells a big amount of resources AKA samples/plugins/virtual instruments will have a subscription plan. NI, Waves, etc... Only companies with a small amount of resource won't follow this trend because they don't have enough to offer to charge 10$ a month. Expensive DAW's will also have subscriptions plans, some already do, it's the future.
    This won't happen with Maschine like some people in this thread assume, Maschine is controller dependent, it doesn't make any sense to pay a subscription the software.

    Eventually, someone will make a centralized Plugin/Sample Hub, like Netflix but instead of movies you have a ton of plugins from different brands, for a monthly fee, i think this is NI's plan, since they already announced NKS-FX and partnership with Waves, Eventide, Softube & Sugar Bytes. Only time will tell...
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
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  5. Tomess

    Tomess NI Product Owner

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    363
    I think you can not compare Netflix with NI.

    1. Netflix only offers a service for consumption, not creation.

    2. Netflix is preferential for online experience ( i know that you can download stuff for offline watching, but that's only a minority part of thier services)
     
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  6. rudynicoletti

    rudynicoletti NI Product Owner

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    156
    Interesting: I only ask what will happen with the software someone already owns. What could a subscription service like the one you describe entitle such a user to?
     
  7. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    OMG... Thats tottally not the point at all...
    I'm comparing in a sense of centralizing plugins/samples from different brands in one service.... BTW Splice already does that: https://splice.com/features/plugins
    I'm sure Ni doesn't want to stay behind... or maybe I'm dumb and I'm just hallucinating and not making any sense, you be the judge. I'm not here to convince you or anyone else about something that is a fact and is already happening on many platforms.

    Probably nothing, you keep using what you bought like you always did, you bought it, it's yours.
    Protools was once the standard DAW in every professional studio, it has a subscription plan now, that didn't change anything owners of previous versions, they are still using their old versions just fine...

    Everyone is afraid that the bogeyman man will force them to pay for what they already own, I find it amusing. lol
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
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  8. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

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    2,158
    exactly, with Maschine, the software is pretty much free with the controller... I have 3 controllers and only use one of the software licenses... this is targeted more so at komplete where people wait until a new version comes out instead of buying the new additions as they are released even if they only want one of the products. also, the definition of the subscription in it's application here is undefined: if it is like a periodical subscription, where you pay in advance, like waves upgrade plans, and then receive new issues during the term, that you "own" the license to like it is now, of your subscription then this is all win for everyone; if it is a plan that is actually for a service, like a cable utility, then it is more of a service contract or membership rather than a traditional subscription - then likely it will be very good for akai, novation, apple exs24, elektron, waves, altura, and Steinberg halon when users leave for the alternatives. if it is an optional cloud service like east west, it is all win as that also provides a good method to demo the products and offers the full range as a ridiculous deal compare to purchasing those all.

    it is likely as well only the player versions of the software would be provided with the subscriptions to the sounds, the full software programs like Kontakt and Reaktor would remain independent products like Maschine. you may even see a software only Maschine player for iPad.

    if you want to look at a model of what it likely will be like, check east west, they work closely with NI and NI does/did their interfaces. the have composer cloud, but as well still have the purchase option. so I do not think there is much to worry about.

    as far as for a business, it is desired to have a regular flow of revenue rather than the principal only once or twice a year. the bills have to be paid to keep it running, though I would like to see NI involved in more philanthropic endeavors, especially at educational institutions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  9. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    1,641
    I think rather the fear is that to upgrade what they already own they will have to buy into some kind of subscription.
    Say for instance you have KU 11 but when Machine 3 comes out you could only get it on subscription. Sure you could not update and carry on using Maschine 2xxxx and KU 11 but then maybe you need Maschine 3 to use KU 12 or any plugins that are part of that. Optional would allow best of both worlds but purely subscription wouldn't. Seems to me that adopting a subscription only route for the main software(s) would be very foolhardy.
     
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  10. rudynicoletti

    rudynicoletti NI Product Owner

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    156
    I agree with you completely
     
  11. Chilled

    Chilled NI Product Owner

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    I will never rent through subscription service my music making software. If NI was to ever mandate this going forward rather than an option then I would not buy anymore from them. Its bad enough that artist music is now largely streamed or using subscription by the masses, and if you ask any producer the impact they will tell you that money they make from their music is way DOWN. That across the board folks.

    Rental and Subscription models work in some areas and not others.
     
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  12. CH7

    CH7 NI Product Owner

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    384
    Most of us are here for maschine, it therefore seems natural to view any plans along in terms of the Maschine. Subscriptions though, could be aimed at the software side in other areas.

    For example, if I could subscribe to a service which granted easy access to most of the useful 3rd party VSTs, that might work. Those vst based companies would get a regular income, whilst the subscriber would have access to useful tools without having to fork out the full cost for a vst they might only use a couple of times. The only commitment could be the first year's subscription followed by a rolling monthly contract. This model could work if you got enough of those companies together and it was well promoted.

    What do you think? Aside from the maschine, is there a scenario where a licence subscription service might be useful?

    Btw - has anyone heard of the recent 'Loop Loft' announcement by NI at this year's NAMM?

    I think the rumours might have started here.
    https://www.kvraudio.com/news/nativ...oops-and-samples-producer-the-loop-loft-40052
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
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  13. Ghost_On_Da_Maschine

    Ghost_On_Da_Maschine NI Product Owner

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    1,571
    [​IMG]
    Native Instruments Road Map for development
     
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  14. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

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    2,158
    the software of maschine and kontakt are not expensive enough to justify a subscription plan, but the sample libraries are in total, so likely you would see the capacity to access and check subscribed libraries and expansions in new versions of maschine 3 and kontakt 6, while the software remains the same. not a contented cat that make me as that would require a background process to be running and internet access. ...
     
  15. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

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    2,158
    all roads lead back to analog

    Elektron Analog Rytm MKII Drum Machine

    Elektron-Analog-Rytm-MKII-Angled2.png
     
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  16. Harsh

    Harsh NI Product Owner

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    104
    If NI chooses to mandate the subscription then we will all simply pay the subscription rates or stay at our current platforms.

    Those who want will do, and those who do not want will not do.
     
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  17. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    6,865
    Thats's a legitimate concern, however, like I said previously companies don't abruptly change to subscription only methods, especially when they are selling software+hardware combos. This subscription thing is mostly about sounds.com for now, and will eventually be an option for Komplete, this is my assumption though... no proof here.

    I spent 1200Eur upgrading my controllers to MK3 and KKSMK2, I 100% do not want to pay anything monthly when I already spent all that money, if somehow NI is brainless enough to force me to pay a subscription fee in order to use Maschine Soft 3.0 or K12 then I'll sell all my hardware and leave. I think they are smart enough to know they would lose a ton of costumers.

    With that said though there will be a time when all companies will only have subscription methods, but that's still in a distant future imo.
     
  18. electrow2000

    electrow2000 NI Product Owner

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    85
    Of course this is predicated on the user having the bandwidth to handle the product downloading, large updates, etc. I sure don't.
     
  19. Ghost_On_Da_Maschine

    Ghost_On_Da_Maschine NI Product Owner

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    1,571
    Actually that's where NI is now, all software is now downloaded through Native Access.
     
  20. electrow2000

    electrow2000 NI Product Owner

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    Not "kompletely". I upgraded to K11U only because it was available on hard drive. That said , at first I dreaded that Native Access was the end for me in order to get updates and software not on the hard drive, but NI came through with the "pause/stop" feature. What might take most of you hours to download takes me days or more.