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NI is going to subscribtion based payment model. What do you think?

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Tomess, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. dxmascia

    dxmascia New Member

    Messages:
    8
    I need some clarification from NI on this. Should I sell/discard my MK3 now?
    I was starting to like it, but if they are going to do this, I would rather break off my relationship with NI early....
    ....just like I have with Adobe and others who try nonsensical rental schemes.
    NI should make an announcement before I and others start getting rid of our NI products as a preemptive measure.
     
  2. laszlozoltan

    laszlozoltan NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    96
    I have to think subscription, with or without ownership - will hurt the bottom line overall. Yes. with subscription, you would get more people dipping their toe into the water But, I think most would see and withdraw sooner than later and simply not return. My reasoning is that Maschine requires serious commitment of time and indulgence. You are not going to find that from the person who figures say $40 per month or $100 per year is cheap enough to try...but there is no real need to go and spend the time and indulgence that is really required to even begin to gain something of value from it.
    For me, Maschine/ Komplete was/is a lot of money to spend on an indulgence I knew absolutely nothing about. But having done so, I bought myself the obligation, to learn it and use it- and that is what I have been doing ever since. I am rewarded for upholding the promise I made to myself at the outset- and again with K10, followed by K11; and Maschine of course with their expansion packs too.

    Now, let us flip the coin where everyone has or has tried it- it would be total overflow- the value of music would be greatly diminished- it would be just noise, because there are no rules everyone would be exploring their own direction at the same time, so everything would be a big fuzzy blur, a cacophony. What makes music special is that it stands out from the environment- but if the environment is a "multitude of music" then your own music would just blend right in with the noise and ultimately what would be unique and special is silence.

    Id just save my money from the get-go- indulge myself with something different.

    I think we are all special here - because we all like to make our own music- and have made the commitment to it that brings us here.
    I dont want to see that cheapened.

    Just my point of view.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. rulgert ghostalker

    rulgert ghostalker NI Product Owner

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    402
    Shweew.....ok....i am ok.
     
  4. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,641
    And yet you would think someone would allay peoples fears rather than seem to almost confirm them by not doing so.........................
     
  5. laserbeak

    laserbeak NI Product Owner

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    484
    The thumbnail for that video made me think that Lewis Hamilton had his hands in NI.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,269
    Actually they won't because there are much better alternatives nowadays. Should they turn into subscriptions models then maybe you would have a point.

    Btw buying stuff is never an investment. Don't kid yourself you are buying sh1t to play with and upload your tracks onto soundcloud. If you are really lucky you might get the money you "invested" back one day, or just be Beyonce.
     
  7. Mr. RecordBot

    Mr. RecordBot NI Product Owner

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    210
    Why are you saying that? I actually made money with my music gear already, even though it's more of an incidental part of my business and I haven't been offering that kind of service for long.

    However I'm not depended on NI - I think that is another mistake people (and maybe managers) make when they use "Adobe" as an example. Adobe has been an industry standard without real competition, the later changed only in the last few years.

    On top: Every piece of equipment I'm buying, be it hard- or software is just "converted" money for me. Equipment I'm not using I sell. That allows me to always have new equipment without investing too much, it's like leasing your stuff. Before making an acquisition I always consider if and how well the item can be sold later and how much money I will lose in that case.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    6,851
    wow... that was seriously discouraging and depressing.
    As a teen, I daydreamt about Music gear all the time, I always saved my hard earned pennies because it's not just investing in "stuff"... it's investing in yourself and your dreams. An investment doesn't necessarily need to have money as a goal, we can also invest in a tool just for our personal enjoyment.

    For years I only spent without ever getting my money back, more than a decade actually, now all I have is paid thru Music including the roof over my head, so yeah... dream on kids you can make it!!! :)

    I do agree that a new shinning piece of gear alone won't magically make a Musician successful without real commitment and even some luck but come on... if people don't dream then they will for sure never make it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
    • Like Like x 4
  9. OhulahanBass

    OhulahanBass NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    231
    +1 money generation isn't the entire investment. I still look at money earned as a pleasant side effect to my music. If I don't enjoy the challenge of a project I won't take the gig. Music is not my day job, it's just something that I need to make to be me.

    If in the future NI rolls out the subscriptions in a way that hinders my creative process or weakens my investments I will look elsewhere. Too early to say if/how I will be affected but I am tentatively nervous. MPC Live option is a comfort.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,269
    As they say in the "music industry"... there is no business like no business.
    If you are making money it's because you are doing it, not your equipment.
    I can understand people doing live DJ gigs perhaps making money, but if I asked anybody here who actually made a profit selling music it will be a handful or near zero (remember I said the word profit which means whatever you've spent it was covered by your sales), not even big bands make much of a profit nowadays... that's why they tour.
     
  11. Organik_Dream

    Organik_Dream NI Product Owner

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    388
    The fact right now , to justify a subscription , can someone tell what NI has been really doing for the last 3 to 4years ? Aside from third party products ? What happend to the creativity ? They can’t even have a serious update for a plugin every 5 years with subscription are they going to update monthly ? Lol , a subscription would be hopeless.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Ghost_On_Da_Maschine

    Ghost_On_Da_Maschine NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,570
    While that sounded good subscription from NI will kinda put the ball in the other court.
    You can't sell a subscription so you would start a spiraling decline pretty quick on your NI products (software and hardware).
    Instead of them being as you said converted money they become dead investments that can't be unloaded to the next sucker.

    Makes you wonder who NI sees as their true competition since right now the competition in both music production and DJing are working more toward making things actually more cohesive for the users.

    I enjoy using Maschine thanks to the Studio, stop using my CDJs because of the S4 w/D2s combo and feel that Komplete really makes doing certain things comfortable.
    However nothing about any of that can benefit (at least in my world) from going the subscription route.
    Didn't really concern me when they started sounds.com since I have 21 Maschine Expansions and have never made use of a single one but again that's just me, but transitioning the overall aspect to subscription that's hard to ignore.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    6,851
    I understand what you're saying but if you ask all artists how many of them are professional in a sense of actually living off their craft then the answer will always be the minority, it is not a Music thing, it's Art in general... Painters, photographers, etc... regardless of any of that people still should invest. If one like's photography for example then he should invest in cameras, lenses, etc.. that's all I'm saying.

    Big bands don't make much profit? o_O What bands are these dude? You might have read one article too many written by some blogger that doesn't know what he's talking about or you had bad experiences yourself. Every 'big' band I personally know IRL makes good money with youtube views, Spotify, iTunes, publishing rights, radio airplay, sponsors, merchandising, and more... And I live in a tiny country with only 10million people. But of course, the biggest check is on tours. Now if you mean CD sales... then yeah, there's no money in that unless you're independent.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,269
    ^^ Wow you must know Beyonce and all that, because the "big" bands I know do not make much money at all other than touring... streaming royalties and iTunes are a joke. With CD sales at least you can get a reasonable profit margin.

    Anyway as you know I was talking about using the phrase "investment". The only time you can call it that is when it at least made you the money to pay for it, I can certainly say the vast majority of people reading this post right now would not be in that position.
     
  15. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    1,641
    I keep hearing this and yet.......the numbers mooted in the Robin Thicke / Pharrell vs Marvin Gaye estate case were over 5 million and that's one single. Admittedly that single was pretty huge but the ones that are making money are very much doing so. I think for bands selling low numbers it's harder than it was to survive given that they aren't cut any slack by record companies these days but there's also other avenues such as licensing, you tube and the like. The worst culprits as far as I'm concerned are Spotify and i tunes mainly because of the awful deals they struck for the artists via the record companies
     
  16. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    6,851
    Actually, Spotify and iTunes pay better than Youtube for example. Tydal is where the profit margin is the highest but it doesn't have such a big audience. https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2017/10/13/godigital-spotify-youtube-pay/

    I wish I knew Beyonce, i keep dreaming so hey... maybe one day I will! :D
    Beyonce level artists can easily pack 40000+ people in a venue paying a minimum of 50$ each.. that's 2 million in one day! That's not the sort of artists I'm talking about, I'm considering "big" bands the ones can pack at least 1000+ people at a venue, got at least a few millions views on their channel, at least one song on the radio rotation, etc... if those numbers aren't there they aren't "Big" at all, not even medium...
     
  17. OhulahanBass

    OhulahanBass NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    231
    You seem hung up on the word investment. By common definition an investment is for profit OR material result. What people on this thread are investing for is irrelevant to the conversation. Spending big on a product to perform a task is an investment as long as there is an intended return. For me it is indefinite access to the tools I purchased. Currently that includes future OSX support and basic updates, a sub model may put that at risk.
     
  18. Ghost_On_Da_Maschine

    Ghost_On_Da_Maschine NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,570
    This is where things really start to fall apart.
    You have a bug in MacOS and Apple fixes it but the new version with the fix requires a new version of Maschine but to get the new version of Maschine you have to have a subscription.

    This would be bad enough with software but with a hybrid like Maschine it's even worse.
     
  19. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    6,851
    That's the same as "Only subscription costumers get bugfixes", that would be crazy... half of us would be out the door.
     
  20. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,269
    All streaming services pay crap.
    YouTube won't pay you a penny now unless you have all of this and more:
    10,000 views
    1,000 subscribers
    4,000 hours of view time.

    Good luck with that.

    The final cheque I got from them was £60, and I consider myself lucky.