@NI What is going on?

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by i2050, Sep 9, 2011.

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  1. i2050

    i2050 NI Product Owner

    OK this is less of a rant and more of an open letter to NI.

    Ever since 2001 I have been a fan of NI. It started with the pro-53. Gradually I moved up to Komplete 5, Kore 2, and Maschine. I have also purchased a few Reaktor Premium Synths. What really got me with NI was the excellent GUI's, the very un-VST sounds of their synths, and the constant updates to their synths and new models came out.

    I loved their website design and product pages. The forums were nice too. Surprisingly, with my purchase of Maschine I went from NI was a super electronic software company, to THE BEST software company in my opinion. At least in the soft-synth/fx trade. The Maschine forum was the pinnacle of excellent marketing, branding, customer evaluation, community and customer loyalty programs. The Reaktor and Kore forums were great, but the Maschine forum really blew my socks off.

    Maschine as a product got MANY free and beyond powerful upgrades. The offered new free premium content. It got an "On the Record Session". I loved NI and was waiting for that style of marketing to hit the rest of NI's product line. It never happened. Even worse, it eventually went completely downhill in the eyes of NI's consumers.

    In just 5 months, NI has went from one of the most hungry and loyal customer bases out there, friendliest and most helpful forums, and top notch communication with their customers, to the calamity that is now NI, NI Forums and NI products.

    To begin with KORE 2. Not the end of the world on it being discontinued. SERIOUSLY! But WOW the ways NI handled it was deplorable. They announced discontinuation and made their most hardcore customer base BEG for information that they had for months. Scarily, when we got the answers they were easy to answer and not the horrible situation we were worried about. Everything after the September 1st release of K8 Kore still worked, and updates were made to NI synth engines. Why couldn't NI just tell us what was going to happen? It would of made us all feel better and not had us browsing the now beginning to crumble forum community on a religious basis to find out a sentence of info. To make matters worse they didn't even make dedicated threads to cover the microscopic information that Thomas and Keir provided. Their responses were buried in over 10 page threads.

    Ever since the beginning of the Kore debacle something maddening has been going on with NI: They have been stingy with Info, missed target dates and also have not delivered on the promised release dates. Below is a bullet point list of the failures of NI in the past 5 months:

    - Kore 2 discontinuation RIGHT AFTER Komplete 7 summer sale, which advertised the functionality of it being Kore Ready.

    - Lack of information on the changes to the NI product line and whether it would break Kore. No info was given until the last week before K8 launch.

    - Kore 2 did work with the new updates and old engine pretty well. But there was NO WAY they were going to tell us that. They made us fret.

    - They took down the sale of the Kore Soundpacks. Told us tough luck!

    - They then decided after the calamity to offer Kore2 user 3 free voucher (Awesome!). But only could buy the Kore Soundpacks for a month (not awesome).

    - Then they eventually add MANY of the Kore Soundpacks for free in the New NI Synth Updates without telling the disgruntled Kore users that there would be redundancy in with the new free updates.

    - The change KSD to the Maschine format to kill Kore. Released Sept 1st! EXCEPT MASCHINE WASN'T RELEASED until Sept. 5th.

    - They did not announce the delay until the Maschine forum was filled with "where is the Maschine 1.7 Update".

    - They offer and promise Komplete 8 Elements. It is nowhere to be found. No explanation of who gets it and why its delayed.

    - No new installers for NI's products for 1.7 Maschine such as Battery, Razor, & Spark. Yet they DO have the installers just NOT for NI's loyal customer base.

    - Oh yeah, they DID not tell us about the installers. Saint Joe did!

    - There is no more communication other than Keir "Is working on some info and answers".

    - However, there IS a Machine Mikro Q&A dedicated in the stickies area. No "where are my installers/K Elements/why are my old tags not showing up" stickies or even basic threads started by NI employees.

    - The forums are a disaster right now. Multiple threads about the same issues in MOST of the NI forums. The awesome Maschine forums looks like the Kore 2 forums over the past few months.

    Back on point. In FIVE MONTHS, this is what you have caused NI. You went from an unparalleled company, to just the same old "I already have your money" kind of business. Do you know why PEOPLE LOVE MASCHINE AND TELL EVERYONE TO BUY IT? It's because of how you have handled your developing, marketing, customer loyalty and the awesome user community. Why are you letting it slip? This is disappointing and very un-NI like.

    IN SHORT PICK UP THE BALL. The info you are all sitting on should be shared…PROPERLY. Don't bury it in random threads. Don't say you're working on it and it will be ready next week when it wont! Don't promise people something they are NOT EVEN aware of and then not hold up your end of the deal. At least wait until YOUR COMPANY is ready to roll out the marketing, QA, and how it affects NI's customer base. DON'T release something and THEN tell us weeks later what it is.

    I am not selling any of my NI stuff. I still love it all. I still look forward to Maschine's future. But I have lost respect for NI. I feel like a partner who has been cheated on. No longer will I go on other forums and praise NI's service and quality products. I was head over heels for NI, but now they are jet another music software company. DISAPPOINTING!
  2. TabSel

    TabSel NI Product Owner

    I just want to say, I fully agree

    with what i2050 said here: http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148271:

    And I would like to have chat or two, with Keir, Thomas and anyone else resposnible in any form at NI.
    I want them to join the discussion.
    I want them to acknowledge the current sentiment of their customers.
    I want them to provide more information IN TIME.


    1) WHEN will the installers for razor, prism etc. be available? They are in Komplete 8, why not downloadable?

    2) Where is the documentation to Reaktors changed snapshot system, how are we supposed to get snapshots of a Instrument to an ensemble level now without snapshot master?
  3. alien factory

    alien factory Forum Member

  4. justcharlie

    justcharlie NI Product Owner

    I just got Maschine a few weeks ago but am pretty shocked with how poorly managed the forums are. It's like this is some unofficial forum that NI doesn't bother reading...
  5. reddione

    reddione NI Product Owner

    Plus II, not one to bash on the same subject but myself and a few other maschine heads have questioned this latest move. But who's to say what is coming up next, so I wait and watch....

  6. i2050

    i2050 NI Product Owner

    It used to be the best forum ever in my opinion. Less that 2 months ago its was awesome. It still could be but NI has some work to do.

    #1 Ni should make SPECIFIC threads when they answer questions that have been asked in numerous threads instead of just replying in one of them.

    #2 With EW gone Sowari needs some help.

    In general, I think NI bit off more than they could chew. Too much all at once. Again the should just come clean and say what the deal is. NOTHING could be worse than what has happened.

    The shameful part is they don't seem to really care that much. We went from "on the record' sessions to a 4 day wait to find out about Komplete Elements. Waited 3 days for 1.7. I knew more about Maschine's Time Stretch features than something promised on all release notes.
  7. smithwessen

    smithwessen NI Product Owner

    i couldnt give a rats ass about kore nor your kore woes, keep that stuff in the kore forums do not dilute the maschine forums with that drival.
  8. lethal_pizzle

    lethal_pizzle NI Product Owner

    Yes, they should have cleared up the Komplete Elements issue earlier.
    Software gets released 3 days late shocker! ;)
  9. Keir @ NI

    Keir @ NI Community, man NI Team

    As you might know, it's my responsibility to look after the forum and I have to say, this is a really horrible read for me at the end of the week.

    With regard to some of the points in this thread, my job entails three key things: I need to make sure you guys are informed with whatever information is important at the time. I also need to make sure that your opinion is passed on to the relevant people here at NI. Finally, I need to make sure the forums do justice to and communicate the fact that the people who work at NI do actually care incredibly strongly about NI users, and I need to really make it clear just how hard everyone at NI works to produce the stuff we do.

    Given those three points, reading this thread isn't exactly the best feedback I could have hoped for, then.

    Just like the forum as a whole, scores of points and questions have been raised in this thread alone and I'm not able to go into everyone in detail, much as I'd like to.

    I don't believe NI has 'bitten off more than it can chew' but this is an extremely busy time for community activity, (release of 1.7, Komplete 8, announcement of Mikro, iMaschine, S2) and there are threads in every forum for me to keep track of in the moment. I am monitoring the forum all the time (as are many of the devs) and I provide comprehensive summaries of what you guys are saying. I will make the effort to be a little more visible so this becomes clearer.

    On a practical level, I'd ask that if there is a burning issue or missing piece of info that people should know ASAP, please send me a PM. If you give me a heads-up, I'll get on it as soon as I can.

    In terms of how the forum is run, I've noted your points. I agree we could use an extra pair of hands. This is actually something I've already been looking into this week and hopefully there will be some developments on that front soon.
  10. dj_dunno

    dj_dunno Forum Member

    Hang on a sec.... Firstly, this post isn't all Kore related. It's addressing a few issues within the NI forum lately. Secondly, can you really blame any Kore users for the way they feel right now? Had it been the opposite and they had dumped Maschine and not Kore, can you honestly say you wouldn't be posting similar stuff?

    See, I ain't been posting on these forums for very long, I usually just appeared when i had an issue then disappeared when it was sorted but since I got Maschine I've been hanging round a bit more lately. The one thing that strikes me about this forum is there is a lot of anger about for whatever reason. People are posting here for advice or help or to help out others and sometimes to voice frustration, but anger and attitude don't really get anyone anywhere, just creates a bad vibe and more anger and frustration.

    I'm aware I'm possibly gonna get ripped for posting this but isn't everyones post/view as valid as everyone elses?
  11. smithwessen

    smithwessen NI Product Owner

    like i said i couldnt give a rats ass about kore nor how kore users feel, kore still works as is, so i dont care, just saying to keep that kore stuff in its own forum.

    go look at my posts, and see what the type of posts i post, i try and help all those i can, but like i said before, kore issues belong to the kore forums.
  12. lethal_pizzle

    lethal_pizzle NI Product Owner

    If that's true then why are you criticising someone's post/view? It is, of course, just as valid! ;)
  13. lephilb

    lephilb NI Product Owner

    Come on ni guys ! Sunday crisis meeting to be planned !

    Soaking the market with marvelous pictures and videos of ton's of new products and not being able to follow ?

    Every trusted customer lost ill take you years to get back.... Or prehaps you think you are the mcrosoft of music softwares ?

    I have raised a ticket since satursday about Vintage mk2.... No answers

    You know the fable of the frog will to be a..... Looser

    Hope electrochoc will come
  14. dj_dunno

    dj_dunno Forum Member

    LOL.... Half point taken, but I wouldn't say I was criticising his post. I'm just saying, I've been on the end of the "ah well, we ain't supporting this product anymore" and it sucks. I'm just saying a "I couldn't give a rats ass" post isn't exactly helpful.... Nothing forced him to read it or to reply to it. The whole point of the forum is user support isn't it?

    Imma just sit back an wait for the attitude to follow now..... LOL :)
  15. Keir @ NI

    Keir @ NI Community, man NI Team

    Can you let me know your ticket number? I'll chase it up first thing Monday.
  16. lephilb

    lephilb NI Product Owner

    Thanks keir.. Its about the free update possibility of kore retro machine to mk2 thats announced on the site since 2weeks


    Honestly its hard to be obliged to shout.... I really love your products but i puzzled by seing such ramp down of credibility in such short period. I'm also in IT industry , I understand complexity of release management... But my team takes care of the alignment between product marketing / development AND roll out support

    As said... Hope sunday crisis meeting happens and that cold and fresh air will get NI management back on the ground

    Take care in turbulent times.... ( in the meatime in holding on my decision to buy coss grade komplete for machine user )
  17. sergevol

    sergevol NI Product Owner

    I don't think Retro Mk2 actually exists.
  18. lephilb

    lephilb NI Product Owner

    Sergevol: i have a licence of Kore Retro Machines . Now NI talks about kontakt retro machines mkii

    Read the forum... I'm not the only one in that situation
  19. marcpinol

    marcpinol Forum Member

    :( So true, btw.
  20. mezzurias

    mezzurias NI Product Owner

    As disturbing as the thread is for the mods and despite the Kore rant, I think he is dead on.

    All we are asking for is information and consistency. I don't want to have to read a ten page thread to read a snippet if info I can;t find anywhere else on NI's site. I don't want to find out about stuff AFTER the **** hit the fan. As it stands that is how NI is divulging information to users.

    How were we supposed to know that Maschine 1.7 was pushed back if we hadn't gone through a whole forum post to get the tiniest morsel of information letting us know it had been pushed back. The right thing to do was for NI to inform the mods and for the mods to post the info in a sticky, so that users could know what to expect.

    NI could avoid a lot of animosity by just being more open with information, just like they avoided the growing animosity with their releases early on by heeding the communities plea for open betas to stamp out bugs. Simple things like posting any information even if the mods think its insignificant to a sticky somewhere so that users know what to expect. I shouldn't have to find out that Razor's presets aren't included in the update by word of mouth, I should know that from NI. That way I can grind my teeth, and shake my head but dammit I know what the **** is going on.

    On the flip side you have some asshats here who have been given the information (like what to expect in 1.7) and decide to throw a tantrum 3 months later about what isn't there.
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