odd meter loops in same scene?

is it possible to have several odd meter midi loops (say 7/8, 9/8 & 5/4) all running in the same scene all looping independently time wise like clips in abelton?

i like working in standalone mode, but sometimes i like to start an arrangement using numerology (with maschine as an AU plug in) to get various sequences down, then record the midi into maschine.

cheers!

 

Ah, polyrhythms! So it's not just me who wants them.

Here's the thing. Groups could loop independently in 1.0, then they broke in the 1.1 update; when the longest scene looped, all of the other groups reset back to beat 1.

It stayed this way through 1.5 until somewhere around version 1.6 beta 2 they fixed it, and it showed up as such in the release notes as 'group pattern looping behaviour fixed' or something similar, I can't check because they've killed the beta release threads.

1.6 was shaping up to be amazing, VST's and fixed polyrhythms for the wonky phasing riff guys like us (MIDI-in from N3 into Maschine plug-in is awesome).

When the release version, 1.6.2 rolled around they quietly rolled out the 1.1 scene looping behaviour again. Polyrhythms are gone, and when I opened a ticket on the JIRA bugtracker (which apparently they've since removed the Maschine group) I was told the following:

Resolution: By Design

changed on purpose for 1.6.2.

Which I questioned on account of the beta changelog that said that this very behaviour had been fixed.

there was a miscommunication in the changelog. finally, we decided to stick to the maschine 1.5 behavior.

Someone else from NI added that 'this isn't a part of the feature set of Maschine 1.6'. Even though the betas did it and did it perfectly.

So the short answer is, no, you can't do polyrhythms in Maschine 1.6.2 for reasons NI didn't want to tell me, even though I was perfectly polite in my request for further information.

However, if you've got the 1.6.1 installer on your hard-drive still you can use that for polyrhythms. I am, and it appears to not expire, I guess because it was a release candidate. However, expect it to break on the next update/beta phase if you do this.

It was apparently put forth as a feature request, which I find really strange since the betas did wonky-meter loops perfectly. So frustrating

 

@ porpoisemaker. thanks so much for your reply. that seems totally weird to take that out of the final release. yeah, your're right. i'm sure sure they were looping right in the betas & now they re-set at the longest loop in the scene.

so would i just have to re-install basically any of the 1.6.1 builds or earlier?
can i do this even if i have 1.6.2 installed?

 

Hey wild pitch. On my Macbook I simply never updated to 1.6.2. On my studio iMac I reinstalled what I think was beta 4 (R6767, it's in the about screen) over the 1.6.2 install. The installer whined, but I told it to proceed anyway. I haven't got around to giving beta 5 (R6847) a go on my iMac yet but I see no reason for it to not work if beta 4 does.

I really hope they do reinstate this feature in the future. Not everyone needs it, but I don't see why it shouldn't be there for the few of us who do, especially since it has been proven that it has already been freakin' implemented!

If any of the NI team are reading (Mads / Thomas / Jens, hello!), is there a reason for the last minute change of heart regarding polyrhythmic group looping behaviour? Why the team removed a very cool feature at the 11th hour without knowing the reason is frustrating.

If the implementation broke looping behaviour for other users in certain circumstances I could understand and would be happy with it the decision to revert. It's the lack of communication on the matter that has disheartened me, which is a real shame because the community interaction between the devs and users has been fantastic since Maschine first hit the stores.

 

I wasn't aware this feature got reverted in 1.6.2... Did they elaborate on their reasoning behind this?

A possible workaround is to create a pattern in the scene that is a lowest common denominator of the lengths of the other patterns in the scene – it can even be a dummy pattern.

 

thanks for the tip! is the lowest common denominator the smallest number by which all the odd meter lengths will divide by?
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yeah, the dummy clip sounds like the perfect solution! ha! had to brush up on my maths just then... sweet!

 

I haven't heard a peep about it from NI, the only reason I know that it was deliberate is because they confirmed it via the bugtracker on the ticket I opened.

As for your workaround, I have done that in the past with 1.5, but for a product that emphasises 'getting lost in the flow' as a selling point having to do calculations in order to mathematically align group lengths takes me right out of it.

I'd rather just set my pattern resolution to 16ths and drag a group's loop brace to where I want it and leave it to cycle of its own free will like I could in the 1.6 betas.

The other workaround is to drag loops into Live, but again I'd rather do it all in Maschine because the workflow is superb. For me personally, Maschine is so nearly there. Beta 5 was there, I had all of the toys I wanted and then they removed the awesome looping behaviour with no real justification. Surely the implementation of polyrhythmic looping worked far too well to be a mistake that needed to be excised at the last minute?

Like I've already said, if it created some sort of technical issue I'd be ok with it, I'd just like to know why someone said 'no, that's a bad idea' and removed it.

 

agreed, this would be perfect!

 

+1 for the return of independent looping!

You've probably brushed up on this already but be careful: the lowest common denominator is the smallest number by which all the lengths will divide by.


It's limited but here's a setup I find fun for doing polyrhythms and sequences and not interrupting the flow:

Set pattern length to 1/16 and set up a dummy pattern 2520 long. (do this on any group you won't be using)

You can now do patterns 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 9 or 10 steps long and not worry about the maths at all

Set the grid step lengths for each group to whatever you want but I'd start at 1/16 and then see what works for you.