Open Letter: Dear N.I.

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by xXx_Dugan_Fire_xXx, Feb 22, 2019.

  1. Karoshi

    Karoshi New Member

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    4
    Well, I nearly never because I didn't want to appear as just some new user coming on to the forums just to slate NI, but I just feel 1) miss-sold on what the Maschine can do and what it's for, and 2) Stupid for not looking into it more before buying.

    I mean, when I bought it I even thought "ahh well, if I don't click with the Maschine program, at least I'll have a pretty decent MIDI controller..." then I find out MIDI mode wasn't out, then when it was there is absolutely no way of configuring it, so its useless for that too.

    On a positive note because I don't like too much negativity, the unit itself is a really nice tidy unit, the pads are fantastic, as a loop making unit it's pretty good (even though only about half my VSTs show up in Maschine?) the ability to set the scales when in keyboard mode is awesome, and the chords mode is really fun too. But I think thats about it... at the moment it's just a kinda fun toy.
     
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  2. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    Here's the thing; the hardware is awesome. It has a massive amount of potential, it's just held back horribly by software. It could be the go-to solution for most people.

    I genuinely feel like it's more of a lifestyle product aimed at bedroom dreamers than pros who want to really work with it, which is confusing considering NI always used to be the option for professionals, but obviously the consumer market is far bigger. Same thing happened with Apple and the Mac really.
     
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  3. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,280
    My DAB radio does not tune correctly. It's stuck on one channel. I sent it back for replacement and they have now sent me a DAB/FM radio sadly stuck on one channel when I flip between them, yey extra channel!
     
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  4. mas chine gun

    mas chine gun NI Product Owner

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    bigwig is an envelope for machine that’s allowing me to bypass all machines faults in general you need midi routing etc. etc. etc. and so many other things that machine doesn’t offer so you need to go to a Daw
    Machine by itself doesn’t have the functionality that you would need if you’re producing music for money So it’s obvious that A Daw is needed no way of going around that at this moment in time
    And just to add bitwig script is fully programmable Unlike mashine If I need to change I can do it myself or look online and it’s done and that’s it
    waiting all day years and months and nothing happening I just started doing it myself stop waiting #RageAgainstTheMashine
     
  5. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    914
    I think most people on this forum are using a DAW with Maschine. This is one of the main things proven by this thread I created:
    https://www.native-instruments.com/...ol-mk2-due-to-ni-removing-mcu-support.329081/
    Neither Maschine nor KK's problems are solved with a DAW.
     
  6. mas chine gun

    mas chine gun NI Product Owner

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    When you come in say the potential is there and you enjoy the hardware and so forth but Eventually you find functionality that doesn’t exist inside the machine
    when you don’t have what you need you look somewhere else I think it is basic reasoning when there’s a problem find a solution don’t you?
    If you are getting paid to make music you know the solution is a DAW if music is a hobby or something you like to do than sit in the forms and complain about maschine faults
    I come in the form and try to help answer questions as well as have my own questions answered If you’re complaining about something and a DAW has the solution then that’s the direction you go
    For me and me alone this is my job I make my living off of music I occasionally stop by and just make a comment but if you’re serious about music you’ll find A solution BKA/AKA =DAW of any brand it’s a no brainer I mean do you know how long it takes the program code so what you’re asking for could be years away months away just think about it go find a solution
     
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  7. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    914
    Come on bud, I already stated that I use Reaper. I work with ambisonics and scores for video games. Implementing MCU so I can use the transport buttons on the KKMK2 isn't something that would take long in any way. It's a decades-old standard. Literally late 90s. A $50 keyboard has it. Even the KKMK1 has it.

    We went from the KKMK1 to the KKMK2 as a business, and nowhere in NI's marketing materials did they state that MCU was absent, not that it's something they would enjoy pointing out to prospective customers, yet NI have stated it's coming.
     
  8. mas chine gun

    mas chine gun NI Product Owner

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    So is midi 1.0 that why they Recently released that they’re working on midi 2.0
    Time is not the essence when it comes to musical software what you are saying had been said here for over five years and still nothing is change just another voice Joining all the others saying the same exact thing if I was to go back-and pull threads from 5 to 10 years ago everything you said has been said
    you’re just upset with your purchase I’ve been a customer of native instruments for over 10 years and I’m satisfied with what I got so far if you’re not
    jump out the ecosystem some people like Pepsi others like coke
     
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  9. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    914
    Jump to what? There's nothing else that will fulfil our needs as a business because we heavily rely upon Kontakt libraries we've invested in along with the accessibility options of the controllers for blind colleagues. NI have already stated MCU is coming, it was present in the MK1.
     
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  10. mas chine gun

    mas chine gun NI Product Owner

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    Whop whop whop whop come on bro if my business required power and then I didn’t have power then I’d be out of business so if your business is only working with one software open your horizons try different brands thousand the software companies get the blinders off by the way have a nice day
     
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  11. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    914
    All very well saying that when you've been using Kontakt since 2002 and have accessibility requirements. You don't know my business, don't pretend to.
     
  12. Drachenkatze

    Drachenkatze NI Product Owner

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    348
    That's correct. However, that's a point a vendor must think about prior doing an implementation. For example, right now we have 2 sets of images with nearly identical images (MST_artwork vs VB_artwork, both aspect ratios of almost exactly 2:1, as well as OSO_logo vs VB_logo with about 5.9:1 vs 6.1:1). No matter if vector or pixel data - having to create and maintain several versions for each plugin is unnecessary effort. Computers are there for automation, not manual work.

    No, adding pixel data in a vector format is a workaround for a special need, but as said before, it's about foresight when developing a product, or, in the case of KK and Maschine, the lack of it.

    Yes, I agree and that makes me wonder: Why not give the user and 3rd party developers the ability to do batch updates in the first place? That's again a thing where thought needs to be put in first, and implementation second.If vendor A tags their kick drums "Bass Drum", vendor B "Kick Drum" and vendor C "Kicks", can't I, as a user, simply right-click on a tag and say: "Consolidate tag Kick Drum with > Kicks".

    And in regards of proper data structures and data management: I know my stuff. Being the (only) developer of PartKeepr, an open source inventory management solution which I pulled off in less than one year (first release was 2012) with almost the same feature set than it has today. That was only possible to carefully thinking about data structures and data management. If I'd had a hack'n'slash approach and didn't care about maintainability and future development, there probably wouldn't a release until today. After all, music software is data management with some (special) requirements for audio processing. Nothing more, nothing less.

    If you get your data management layer right, then everything else is easy. If you don't...well...you basically are doomed to stick with your mistakes forever. And that's what the end users feel and experience. Then, if you don't give end users the ability to correct mistakes - not in source code, but in the actual data)...I think you know where this could end.

    I really have to praise the build quality of NI's recent hardware. They set a pretty high standard for it. I've read about occasional QA issues, but it's nothing that can't be fixed with a replacement unit under the required legal warranty. I wish they would follow the same QA and best practices in software development for their software as well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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  13. Drachenkatze

    Drachenkatze NI Product Owner

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    348
    I just realized that my last post could be interpreted as "Drachenkatze does everything right the first time". The contrary is the case: I do mistakes. All the time. I did so with PartKeepr. I did so with PresetMagician. But the key is: Recognize your mistakes and fix them in time before it's too late and you have to carry around legacy mistakes (or decisions) until eternity.
     
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  14. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    914
    So when's NI hiring you as a third-party consultant? ;- )
     
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  15. Drachenkatze

    Drachenkatze NI Product Owner

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    348
    I don't know. I can share my software development experience and methods, but the problem often lies deep within a company's management. A developer says: "Hey, that feature takes quite a while to implement, to do it properly I need 3 months". Management: "You have one month. Make it possible."

    And that's a problem I cannot fix, not even as a consultant :(
     
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  16. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    914
    Agreed, but your contribution to the community as a whole and NKS as a standard is really important. What you do is what NI should be doing in the first place. Your software is what brings a lot of the value to owning one of these controllers.
     
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  17. xXx_Dugan_Fire_xXx

    xXx_Dugan_Fire_xXx NI Product Owner

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    I personally believe the lack of MCU, midi implementation with the keyboards, 3rd party library exclusion and push of komplete kontrol is all designed to limit the end user to remain within the NI ecosystem.

    These weren't haphazardly implemented it was intentional from the get go.
     
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  18. Tomess

    Tomess NI Product Owner

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    364
    Well, as we all see here in this forum, NI does not care about our thought, wishes or input. All they care about right now is implementing their subscribtion based services...at all costs. They don't care about the mood around here. They don't care about our input. They just want to make money the fastes way possible and this is the main focus and propably will be in the future. Vote with you wallets. That's the only voice NI will hear atm. The future of sound is in our hand. Not theirs. Don't forget that!
     
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  19. omegatron

    omegatron NI Product Owner

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    128
    Some legit statements being made here, I'm glad I made the switch when I did, and to be honest I regretted it to start with, but I think that was more to do with having to relearn some stuff I thought I had down pat, I don't have the patience or the disposable income to get continually burned by n.i. or any other company for that matter... This stuff happens because you allow to happen, withdraw your support and you don't have to deal with it anymore.. it's really very simple, you may lose a few bucks when you resell the gear or software you purchased but you'll stop feeling bad about it pretty quickly just like I did..
     
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  20. RobLo

    RobLo NI Product Owner

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    278
    Pfffffff - vector graphics, for what??? It's only 2019. We're still waiting for the invisible hand of technology that is going to push us into cloud based, subscription only consumerism.....

    Oh wait....
     
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