Other Modulation Methods & Elektron Style Param Locks

To NI,

Are there any plans to add Elektron Style param locks or other methods of modulation?

The Elektron method has you set a parameter value on a given step and it remains at that value until another sound is triggered (it returns to default) or another value is set (it changes to the new value).

Another cool feature would be to be able to snap/quantize the real time recorded values to grid points, so you motion control a value over 16 step pattern but instead of smooth recording from the dial, you have 16 discrete values (or 8/4/2/32 etc depending on the grid settings).

Cheers

Ross

 

You can do step automation, here is how to:


(this is for maschine 1.x, but its the same with 2.x)

I couldn't understand your second request..
What exactly do you mean other than quantize (shift+pad5) ?
Do you mean play quantize? Or 16 velocity?

 

I mean quantizing modulation patterns recorded in real time, not notes.

I'll check the video but I am pretty sure the maschine does not work the same as the Elektrons.

 

Using Machine's step modulation basically equates to Elektron's parameter locks. Machine gives greater resolution (grid settings from 1 bar to 1/128) and can have patterns a lot longer than 4 bars.

One thing Machine can't do (as far as I know) that Elektron's can is to trigger just the filter envelope or just an LFO (though not sure that that is any great loss).

 

Am not sure I am following what you are after as like the others indicate, Maschine can do exactly that.. it works fine for VST etc where you can assign the macro knobs.. not so much for external gear as the knobs cannot be assigned to CC values.

 

There is a subtle difference and that is what I am getting at here, I own 4 Elektrons and Maschine. It may be that I am missing something on maschine but I'll try and explain the difference more clearly:

In step mode on maschine with single sample triggered at the start of a bar, if I set a step modulation on say filter cutoff frequency and lower it, it will be set for just that step. If the tone triggered by the step actually lasts for four steps, the filter will jump back to the default position on the second step of that four. So the filter would drop for just a single step out of the four.

Parameter locks on the elektrons work differently, you have the same single sound triggered on just the first step of a pattern, the sample/sound lasts for four steps. If you set the filter cutoff frequency down on a that triggered step, the filter cutoff will remain at that value for the full duration of the sound. Unless another sound is triggered (in which the filter would reset to default) or another step has an associated filter lock value.

Does that make sense. I should probably make a video to demonstrate the difference.

 

Maschine 1 had the parameter lock as stated (apart from the value would not reset when another sound was triggered), but Maschine 2 does not. It should be an option/mode.

 

Don't forget that on Machine you can set a different grid length for every step (so you can dictate how long you want the modulation to last for). I have a Monomachine and as far as I can see Machine's step modulation can give me the same functionality as parameter locks on the Monomachine.

 

I have lamented the removal of this functionality in version 2.x many times. I used it very frequently in 1.x and to get the same result in 2.x is cumbersome (and/or needs the mouse). I have no objection to the 2.x "2-point" way, as it can be useful and interesting, but, as Mr Pizzle points out, should have been an option. And no, changing step size just to do this would be even more cumbersome as step size is relied on by other features and so it needs its own option, even a toggle ("Legacy" or "Step").
It might sound ridiculous, but this is one of the features that frustrates me most in Maschine. Another is not having a "reset parameter to default" command from the controller, but that's another story.

I haven't tried this, as I never use the record or play quantize options, but does having play/record quantize enabled only quantize notes?
I know one thing I don't like (related to modulation being relative) is that longer/slower modulations are very difficult, as Maschine snaps the value back to the "physical" point of the parameter whenever it gets chance, so you end up with divots in the modulation that you did not record.

 

Ok, I'll have a look maybe changing the grid setting will solve the issue.

 

Set all grid settings to off and it still doesn't behave the way the Elektrons do when setting modulation on specific steps, it only affects that step and goes no further, the grid settings don't effect this.

If you set the step grid settings very large you can make the edits apply to longer periods but this is not the same and no at convenient as the method used by the Elektrons.

I am not saying that the current method isn't valid but new methods could work better.

 

Hi,

Can you explain how you get the same functionality from modulation on the maschine as you do from param locks on the monomachine.

 

Something you may not be aware of (I don't think it is mentioned in the manual) but, just like Elektron, on Machine you can step modulate on non note values. When you hold down an unlit pad it brings up the modulation screens (just as it does when you hold down a lit pad) and you can change grid resolution at any time so basically you can have your parameter locks where you want them and for whatever length. Don't forget that you can set one grid for notes and a different grid (longer, shorter) for modulation that starts at the same time as a note.
The Monomachine parameter locks lock to the grid (16ths or 32nds only) so I have no problem getting Machine to give me the same functionality and more.

 

Yeah I knew you can do automation on non note values but there is no easy way to have a modulation last until another note is triggered or a new modulation is set. I suppose given the work around, constantly setting the grid to different values is kind of possible but it isn't as easy or as fluid as on the Elektrons.

As an example: How do I set a modulation on say a 16 step pattern, on say step 4 (of 16) that lasts until the end of the pattern, in step edit mode?

"Don't forget that you can set one grid for notes and a different grid (longer, shorter) for modulation that starts at the same time as a note."

Its this that I don't get? How is this done?

 

With the grid resolution set to 1/16 input the note on step (pad) 4 and the modulation on step 4. Change the grid resolution to 1/4 and input the same modulation values on pads 2, 3 and 4.

Now this may appear to be slightly more clunky then how it is done on the Monomachine but you should remember:

Normally you want modulation when the note is actually sounding (and I would have to edit the Monomachines amp parameters to get the note to sustain to the end of the pattern) so modulation lengths would be the same or less than note lengths.

Machine's step modulation has far greater resolution, grid resolutions can be mixed within a pattern and patterns can have more than 64 steps so the slight reduction in ease of use in some instances is more than compensated by the greater feature set.

 

This is the best news I've heard all day! Now I have something to do while waiting for the 2.3 update.

 

• This was dead quick and easy in 1.x and the functionality was removed in 2.0.

That's what you should remember.

I do agree that Maschine is generally more versatile and flexible, especially in this regard, but you clearly never used the 1.x functionality for its strengths. Please bring it back as an option, Mr NI.

 

which method do you prefer Joca, os 1 or os 2 ?

 

Yeah the 1.x method looks much easier to work with and closer to the Elektron scheme.

@Joca thanks for the explanation but that is very much a workaround rather than a slick solution.

If the Maschine took the speed and ease of use element from the Elektrons and kept the rhythmical flexibility of the Maschine it would be killer. I reckon a return to the 1.x method would pretty much achieve this, other than new notes not returning to default.

@Mr36 this should just be an option, to switch between schemes, surely NI could add this.

 

All I want. I realise that now some users prefer the 2.x "2-point" method, which is fine, but removing a feature, a workflow even is a BIG no-no to me. For me, this is like a golden rule of (software) development: add options and never replace features. This overall is one of the most frustrating things about Maschine development to me.

The 1.x method could easily achieve the results that 2.x makes more automatic (it just took programming the two modulation points separately), while achieving 1.x results is much more cumbersome (as discussed here). This, therefore, to me is a step backwards (no pun intended).