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Please enable selecting a channel for loop recorder so we can record scratches

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions' started by mrreck, Oct 12, 2015.

  1. mrreck

    mrreck NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    178
    This has been requested before - https://www.native-instruments.com/...e-loop-recorder-more-scratch-friendly.195711/
    and probably other times but please can you add a drop down to select the audio channel A - D (post mixer) in the loop recorder so that we can select the channel that we want to scratch and record crossfader movements. The only option at the moment is to select Main and listen to the beats in the headphone which means we cant record live in the mix. Cue is pre mixer so doesnt record the crossfader cuts.

    Another option could be to add CUE (Post mixer) though the audio channels would be better if this is at all possible?
     
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  2. Scoox

    Scoox NI Product Owner

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    184
    Not a scratch DJ myself, but I can see how this would be useful to a lot of people. +1
     
  3. mastermc

    mastermc NI Product Owner

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    3,150
    this has been asked for ages ago but n.i. just insists to keep things their way . What hard heads .
     
  4. sndrsklr

    sndrsklr NI Product Owner

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    119
    With the Z2 it´s already a lot better but still far from being usable easily... I tried it yesterday again and I can record my scratches (even though I need quite some attempts to get a clean take without a basic feature like a count in) but as soon as I record a second layer, the volume of the previous layer drops immediately. My guess is that the master signal gets re-recorded and causes phase cancellation but I´m not sure. And since the Cue option is still pre-fader it´s completely useless for that porpuse.

    A workaround is to capture each layer in a cell of a Remix Deck but that´s just a pain in the ass at some point and no option for a live situation, especially if you´re using the same side of Decks for it (Remix Deck on Deck D running captured loops and Deck B is being used to record into loop recorder means the sound of Deck D also gets cut off since it´s using the same output as Deck B and we have no option to change that)... But then again if the main signal gets recorded that also means the Remix Deck gets recorded again as well, right? If so -> useless.

    Advantage would be some arrangement possibilities though, so why not ditch the loop recorder and give us the possibility to record directly in to a Remix Deck cell? Post fader of course :)
    So far every turntablist I spoke to and who´s using Traktor agreed that this would be a killer feature.

    So to sum it up:

    - record directly into a Remix Deck cell with post fader option, ideally recording audio just from one
    selected deck
    - flexible output routing for the Remix Decks

    and since we´re already talking wishlist:

    - record into seperate audio tracks for easier post-record editing (remember the Serato/Ableton Bridge feature which didn´t just record into seperate audio tracks but also recorded automation that could be edited afterwards? I do)
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
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  5. mrreck

    mrreck NI Product Owner

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    178
  6. nodef

    nodef New Member

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    9
  7. bobbyduracel

    bobbyduracel NI Product Owner

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    420
    I agree - a solution to this is worth exploring. Whether scratches, loops with FX, combinations of channels, etc... If we could route any of the channels (virtual audio channels) into others (remix decks, maschine decks) then the instantaneous slip from dj'ing to remixing and producing just HAPPENS.

    I think we should have super simple virtual channel access to-from Traktor and Maschine, with Maschine decks (similar to remix decks) to just do away with the boundaries we currently have. Any sound to or from traktor OR maschine can be thrown back and forth between the two, on the same screen, in realtime... Insane possibilities.
     
  8. UnOiseau

    UnOiseau New Member

    Messages:
    5
    +1 +1 +1
    I just got Traktor with my Z2 and tried to loop scratches. But loop recording on MAIN makes it impossible to build a loop with scratches. CUE input into the recorder allow FX and hotcue to be taken into account but not faders. That's frustrating as it would be a fantastic feature!! Especially for scratching.

    It would be quite easy to make it work though. Here is my suggestion to the development team:
    - add a tick box in preference which make CUE tracks postfader. Then the CUE tracks would be like MAIN except that the user could select what deck to record, taking into account the faders, using the headphone CUE buttons. That would easily solve the problem, and allows for some fantastic performance!

    I really hope the team could set it up for the 2.12 :) otherwise I need to look at rooting traktor to ableton loop recorder, but I'd really like to keep all my loops/workstream in Traktor.

    mrreck suggestion to add to the drop down box (input to the loop recorder) the deck A through D postfader would also be a nice way to implement the feature.
     
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  9. mrreck

    mrreck NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    178
    Great solution @UnOiseau. NI please? im using ableton to record into but running both is too much for one laptop in live gig (and a simple tickbox seems much simpler :) )
     
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  10. UnOiseau

    UnOiseau New Member

    Messages:
    5
    I tried using the loop recorder of ableton but running through another soundcard twice makes it unusable. NI, any chance we can get the tick box in oder to record scratches in remix sets? that would be awesome
     
  11. Mutis

    Mutis NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    239
    First videos. Who doesn't like videos as background for a new idea?

    How Serato approaches into what you are asking for?
    After The Bridge/Mixtape fail, they brang Serato Flip...


    But without Platter movement recorder (plus xfader and other automations) makes this middle step once again. Maybe Serato will evolve add full recorder meanwhile NI seems look elsewhere than turntable instrumentalization (but waste lot of marketing resources into it with Top djs).

    What are you talking about? What's automation recorder?
    Take this old idea...


    Into plug/dedicated channel inside the DAW of your choice (Maschine?)

    Check 3:18 for the automation recording.

    So...
    Maybe instead a Maschine Deck (which require extreme buffer more suitable for high latency settings than live gigging usual workflow for Traktor) why not to add a Traktor deck into Maschine? That will mean a dedicated sampler channel with turntable control and full automation recorder (not like the Bridge which didn't record the turntable vector aka scratch). It will be the perfect answer to Mixtape/Bridge and also give Traktor users a reason for buy Maschine in addition to expand the Remix universe NI seems to point as a value proposition.
    Creating some kind of "XML" file from realtime Traktor data play that later could be opened into Maschine as "song" (or Ableton why not?) and add extra production and post-production to finish mixtapes/remix/mashups...
    Take some inspiratiom from here...


    Another approach could be timecode Audio recording but NI usually takes a good idea and makes it better (ala Apple) like they did with Remix decks/Stems (but also fails due to Apple-ish policy of being closed to its own ecosystem when that isn't full matured). So my bet is for full remixing tools before Ableton takes it's own turntable djing ones (these could be perfectly doable today and the cycling'74 adquisition by Ableton makes it even more possible only limited by revenue on such investment... if you need more info on this idea just ask ;) )

    (this was made in Max6 7 years ago...)

    What if I'm only a Traktor user? (Wth are you doing here if not?)
    Well for Traktor-alone users one simple approach inside actual tools could be enabling remix decks to record "midi" (and timecode) data into a cell (and will open the door to step sequencer for cell). It could be the first step from Traktor to Maschine convergence meanwhile Traktor deck inside Maschine could fill the gap to that "bridge" (Did you see what I've done? Holy **** how clever and jokerish can I go? :p just kidding ;) )
    Just an enchanced Flip as I pointed in the first moment.

    Then let's have a look into Stems... Why not (aside copyright lawsuits) enable recording a new mp4 from the mix between "the original sound file" plus timecode signal into a "control channel" (timecode audio recorded) as "edit version" or record the data into tag (or similar metadata) for later edition (in Maschine Traktor deck with timeline tools etc). From Maschine stem export (includding the Stem generator tool inside Maschine export window) to play straightforward your remixed material. I have even a more advanced idea for stem smartmixing which could take full potentil from 4+1 stems mp4 files Traktor propose... but it will be interesting to discuss it with someone with programming skills (or NI team?) since it could be a push forward feature to fight against worst Traktor competitor... and I'm not talking about Serato this time ;)

    So the possibilities are huge and tested where the benefeits high. Some users could find it "cheating" like sync like timecode itself... well time will tell us but for the full turntable groovebox experience "vinyl vector (or jog) recorder" is one the next frontiers.

    Don't say it wasn't written when you seen it happen ;)
     
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  12. UnOiseau

    UnOiseau New Member

    Messages:
    5
    @mrreck, can you give some details on how you record with Ableton? I am looking for alternatives.
    I tried, but cannot send audio from the Z2 internally (Traktor does not seem to allow that). So sound goes from turntables -> Z2 -> cable -> sound card -> ableton -> soundcard -> cable -> Z2 -> speakers. Going from Z2 to sound card back and forth really reduce the quality of the sound. Have you found a better solution?
     
  13. mastermc

    mastermc NI Product Owner

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    3,150
    too many videos
     
  14. AbleOne

    AbleOne New Member

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    2
    PLEASE!
    +1 on this!
     
  15. UnOiseau

    UnOiseau New Member

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    5
    Did anyone found a fix for this issue in 2.11.1? I saw they mentioned "Fixes requested by the community" in the communication, and I hoped they had included scratches recording. However i can't find it...
     
  16. Mutis

    Mutis NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    239
    In the past I wrote all word by word so figure! XP
     
  17. UnOiseau

    UnOiseau New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Can anyone confirm if they included a way to select a channel in the loop recorder in Traktor 3? Such that we can record scratches.
     
  18. Scoox

    Scoox NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    184
    I can confirm they didn't—running latest beta at time of this reply. I'm now getting into scratching myself. I'd love to be able to record my scratches and drop them into a remix deck on the fly like I do loops. That would definitely add a touch of 'live' action to my sets. Unfortunately only the master out and the pre-fader signals can be recorded. I don't know how this would be implemented in practice, since you'd be recording one deck post-cross-fader, but then all decks go through the cross-fader. Theoretically the cross-fader stage can be split into two stages internally so the isolated deck output can be sampled before it's mixed with the signals from the other decks.

    I would absolutely love this!
     
  19. Scoox

    Scoox NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    184
    Just came up with a trick which at least allows you to record something that sounds like scratching. Basically I've mapped a pad to the EQ Kills, so when I press the pad sound comes through, and when I release the pad sound is cut off sharply, just like a cross-fader. Then I set the loop recorder to CUE and the cuts are recorded. It works quite well actually.