Plugins creating cpu overload within maschine 2 software.

Hello,

I am glad I am joining this forum to talk about this.

I just updated Maschine to 2.0.6. I also had just bought the new Expansion pack Grey Forge.
I was excited and Ive started to make new tunes and now im getting glitches all OVER the place.
I cant even play the project I started because it spikes the CPU. I am in 64 bit mode and yet same thing.
I even tried to open it up as a Plug in within Logic and still nothing.

How do I know that all my cores are working properly?

I hate this, im in the middle of writing music for my band and it does this. so shitty.

My computer is a i7 macbook pro with 16 gigs on ram and a Quad Core.

WTF!?!!?!?!?!!??!!?

 

^- in activity monitor, if your total cpu usage goes above 100%, you are using more than one core...

this is all odd as it should not be doing that...

i can run it on an old mbp duo core with only 2g of ram on an unsupported system and it performs better than i am hearing here.
(10.6, 32bit, external wd black firewire)

on the mac side.. i used to have this issue, odd spikes every few minutes years back. it was from background disc activity, logging, virtual memory swapping, and disc cataloging. the cpu has to manage these functions.

unfortunately, you are not really permitted to entirely different thought... apple has decided their users are idiots and require parental controls in order to preserve their uniform image. you cannot turn off many things via any user gui. on windows you are lucky, you have more configuration options for fine tuning for audio.

reaktor hosted i believe runs single core per instance, so if reaktor was running on the same core that maschine 2 was and it exceeded the 100% level on that core.. , it would glitch in m2 but not in the activity monitor.. this is one of the main problems with single processor multi cores and management of them.

things that cause background activity on the mac that can cause glitches (it takes cpu power to do this sh-t).



1. spotlight
2. time machine
3. virtual memory
4. file sharing and network volumes
5. notifications
6. running airport on
7. open browser in the background (auto page updates cause cache activity)
8. energy settings.. when you want performance, disable all sleep functions.
9. bluetooth on laptops
10. itunes running in the background
11. mail


how to solve it.

turn it off, disable some, schedule others
get faster or more hard drive space, use an external drive. doing it all on one laptop internal hard drive just "ain't" gonna cut it.
quit your browser!!!!!!

 

Hello,

i´ve read someting about mac book audio issue and there they said you have to dissable "spindump".

Uwe

 

spindump huh, just read up on that. Sounds useful, but I havent seen spindump i my monitor.. This seems to be popularized in late 2008's leopard.. Have you done this recently, or are you just blowin smoke? lol

 

are you using the Mac's sound card?

what is your buffer size in your Maschine Audio Preferences?

please give more details about your project - what else are you using apart from Grey Forge and what are you using from that?

sowari

 

spindump is still there, but that should be an issue only after a crash.... rebooting would cure this. there was a problem on leopard that even playing the simplest stereo 16/44 file would glitch about every five minutes. the culprit was a background process that was set to update at a given interval.

i see there are two causes for the issues listed here:

1) poor management of the cores. single cores are overloading which registered as a cpu overload in the app but not the computer.
2) background processes and activity, including inadequate disc usage for efficient management of files and management of thermal activity.

heat, how to solve it and keep the computer from slowing down to cool down. permit the laptop to cool, allow airflow around it. use 32bit instead if you can as 64 bit, while potentially better, requires more ram usage and that creates more heat. use external drives. let the computer cool and take a break, you should be taking ones as well for your health.

you may actually see better performance with 2 i5 cores at 3.1ghz than 4 i7 cores at 2.0. ahh.. the numbers game... how can 5 be better than 7. the i series are not designed for constant usage, a laptop is a mobile solution, you cannot expect the same performance on it that you get on a desktop workstation. contour your projects more efficiently. bounce and freeze more often. once you get the sound you want, bounce it and freeze for later editing if needed and move on to the next focus.

be happy!

 

I had the exact same problem with Grey Forge and I had nothing else but a drum pattern playing in one group. I had Molekular running on one instance of a simple drum pattern today as well, and my cpu was running up to 90 percent in Maschine sometimes.

 

sounds like reaktor hosted has core management issues... i think reaktor was originally intended to run standalone on a computer that was being used exclusively for that purpose, a reaktor engined synth.

as much as i want to get molecular and grey force, since i already have kore and similar other single effects, i am going to wait for k10u and when i get mst in october, whichever comes first.. lol...

 

I am wondering if the NI plugs are also multicore. If maschine is running on quad core and plugins are depleting only first core i guess it can cause problems

 

^-often you don't want the plug-ins to run multiprocessor so they do not interfere with the host.


reaktor is supposed to be and you can set it in the plug-in mode a max amount of processor to give it to prevent overall cpu glitching giving it headroom since when playing, the cpu usage varies. kontakt is and you can turn that on and off. massive, i do not believe is, nor are the others. how well they multi-thread may be an issue in the software, os, and processor. i am not having this issue using xeon processors.

prism and other ensembles use reaktor and are governed by the global prefs set in it, so in a sense when used as a plug-in, they are hosted in a host within a host. this is the one thing i do not like about reaktor when hosted. i wish it had a way to actually build stand-alone synths and effects by putting a lean engine within or simply installing an engine in the plug-in or app support folder.

i don't have issues with this so i cannot test it, but perhaps try other settings with the max cpu usage, it may help prevent glitching in the host. NI put this option in the prefs for a reason.

ah the euphoria of a double latte in the morning - this message is delightfully 100% free of anti-apple rants.

 

Hi everybody, I would like to share with you a solution which I did not see popping up here.
For a long time I had all the problems described above, tried all solutions given without a decent result.
For me the solution was to kill the HTT (Intel) option in the BIOS.
Although I have a massive drop in available cores, which also could be the reason, all CPU usage in M2 dropped.
With HTT on I had 24 cores but noticed that 3 of them were never used, which could mean Maschine can only address 20 with 1 as the Task Manager.
Which would be interesting is, if there are users with a system with a) >20Cores with HTT; b) <20cores without HTT
and see how they are doing .... Then we could establish if M2 can handle max 20 .. or HTT is interfering.

Good luck

 

ow for those who need my conf:
W7 64
Maschine 2.*
Traktor Scratch Pro 2.*
HP Z800 2x X5670 @2.93
RME Hammerfall HDSP9652 PCI
Audio 8DJ
Kontrol S4 MKII
Kontrol X1
Korg microKORG
Novation 25SL MKII
Technics SL1210 M5G 2X
Ecler EVO5
Yamaha HS8

 

and 16 GB RAM

 

Some ideas from an IT guy.

Disabling Hyper threading is crippling your system in so many other ways it really does not seem like a solution. You have a dual X5670 server workstation setup.

"Win7 Home Premium is limited to a single CPU socket. Pro and Ultimate are limited to 2" and Windows Server is needed for advanced CPU configuration maybe the problem is your OS is not supporting your dual X5670 with all it's hypertheaded cores?

Do you have Win7 64 Pro or Ultimate? Home Premium is not supporting your configuration.

 

Hi rbrucemtl I appreciate your input and logic ... I thought the same ... fact is that killing HTT in the BIOS stopped overloading the M2 CPU ... there is a logic in that too which I can explain if you are interested .. in theory you are right, in my setup you're not. OS=W7Pro64

 

@rbrucemtl Same for my Elitebook 8560W Laptop .. after killing HTT in the BIOS much more stability and no more overload of the M2 CPU.

 

From another IT guy, you seem to be forgetting that RT applications count on the fact that a thread runs at the time the application wants it to run. Hyperthreading messes with that principle, as you have no guarantee that a thread does in fact gets run on the core/CPU. Hyperthreading relies on a shared execution stack of a process to be run on the "logical" CPU's. If two threads are scheduled to run on the same core, that do not share the execution stack, the OS will try to move a thread to that CPU that does or there will be timeslicing (multitasking faked by alternating the execution of two tasks fast enough that humans don't notice the difference). This causes delays, that are noticeable in Real Time applications.
VST's being a plugin spawned in it's own process, having a totally different execution stack, are bound to be the cause of these delays. Using a principle called CPU affinity, NI could try to pin a VST to a specific core, relinquishing flexibility for stability. But this would also mean, that in order to use several VST's, one would need a corresponding number of physical cores.

HTT is useful, if you run several applications that operate completely independently of each other and for whom latency is not an issue, like a few office applications, a browser, a mail program and a video player. It is detrimental (and always has been) for RT applications as it introduces random latency.

 

Thanks Vylmen,

I understand how HT is working and agree in certain situations it can actually have a negative effect but in most situations it only offers a 25-30% improvement. In regards to this thread the users are having CPU overload issues in M2 software. On my i7 with HT enabled I have no issues. I have done a small test and disabled HT on my system too see if it made any difference in terms of CPU being used. I used a large project with lots of VSTs loaded and running Molecular effects on most of the instruments and I can clearly see HT is actually helping when it's enabled on my system. My M2 CPU is barly reaching 10% and no signs of under-runs of the audio buffer. Although disabling HT is a work around for some it's probably not the root problem. Personally I get major improvements when I compile code with HT so I'd hate to have to reboot to the BIOS and switch HT on and off every time I wanted to use Maschine.

If I were to debug this problem on my system the first thing I would try is a new Audio interface and driver.


quote="Vylmen, post: 1292515, member: 311122"]From another IT guy, you seem to be forgetting that RT applications count on the fact that a thread runs at the time the application wants it to run. Hyperthreading messes with that principle, as you have no guarantee that a thread does in fact gets run on the core/CPU. Hyperthreading relies on a shared execution stack of a process to be run on the "logical" CPU's. If two threads are scheduled to run on the same core, that do not share the execution stack, the OS will try to move a thread to that CPU that does or there will be timeslicing (multitasking faked by alternating the execution of two tasks fast enough that humans don't notice the difference). This causes delays, that are noticeable in Real Time applications.
VST's being a plugin spawned in it's own process, having a totally different execution stack, are bound to be the cause of these delays. Using a principle called CPU affinity, NI could try to pin a VST to a specific core, relinquishing flexibility for stability. But this would also mean, that in order to use several VST's, one would need a corresponding number of physical cores.

HTT is useful, if you run several applications that operate completely independently of each other and for whom latency is not an issue, like a few office applications, a browser, a mail program and a video player. It is detrimental (and always has been) for RT applications as it introduces random latency.[/quote]

 

Exactly!
I was going to post the same as this is my experience with audio applications including Maschine. All the top DAW builders will agree and this has been tested extensively. On my audio optimized i7 with pro soundcard running at 64 buffers and lots of heavy VSTs, Maschine runs flawless with no crackles with HT on. In most cases the root issue is likely high DPC caused by bad drivers or power saving options that need to be disabled.

This is not set in stone though as there can be other variables with certain systems where it is better to leave it off. In this case, it could be that this is an issue with Xeon rigs that have more than 16 total cores with HT as I have seen similar with certain apps. Same with i3's which may not really have enough cache to handle the thread distribution. However, I would normally leave it on for any i7 rig and look elsewhere.

 

This is NI's first attempt at multicore support. There are bound to be untested corner cases.

This is also an option I'm entertaining. But unless you remove a physical CPU or disable cores, it has the same solution.
Let me stress then, that disabling HTT is the solution for the following symptom:

• A disconnect between Maschine's CPU indicator and the OS CPU indicator: The Operating System's CPU load is relatively low, nowhere near 100% across all cores (8-12% in our case, with 24 threads or 12 cores), while Maschine's CPU indicator is close to or way passed 100%.

If your OS CPU is in perfect sync with Maschine, then obviously you need to install some upgrades or perhaps take a look at the task manager to see what's running in the background.
A side-effect we observed is that there are random peaks in the ASIO driver latency check. It may be in the green for more then 30 seconds, but once in a while you get a peak of 2 or 3 times as high latency. This is with no other tasks running (not even Maschine) and tested with two different NI audio cards (Traktor, Audio 8) over USB as well as an RME HDSP 9652 over PCI. FWIW the Audio 8 has slightly better performance.