Poll: how do you feel about Kontakt2?

I'll take the refund if you don't mind.
I say to little to late.

Any software company that does not take their bugs seriously is doomed to be overun by them. K2 is a case in point. The biggest bug of them all is the head cheese at NI. This person needs to be booted, wherein a new operation can ensue. An atmosphere of releasing second rate products can only come from the top. The rode to recovery starts there.

How else could a product be released that borders the line of fraud?

 

I voted , but those are obsurd options.
What should happen is a fix in 4 weeks and then another fix in 12 to get what you missed the first go. maybe another after that if you miss some. MAKE THE PRODUCT DO WAHT YOU PROMISED US IT WOULD!!!!

We have beem waiting for you guys to fix this for a year.

I seriously doubt I will be doing any repeat buisness with you guys.

waiting a year to fix crashing data loss bugs is not acceptable.

AFAIAC, we should have had the 4 week from now fix 2 months ago and should now be receiving the more polished patched . Having to wait another 3 months for you guys to get your act together is not acceptable for company that is supposed to be giving us professional tools. If you gave a carpenter a hammer that had only the handle and told him the rest is coming in 3 months, what do you think he would say? Do you think he would wait?

CH

 

WEll, concentrating on Bandstand and Akoustic Piano is the wrong approach.

If K2 is going to be the basis for all the products, doesn't it make sense to get that right first, then port it into these programs.

With K2 being probably more for the professionals and semi pros out there, Band Stand looks as if it is marketing for the hobbist.

Which makes the pros here who spend tons of money on NI stuff feel less important, and will have no choice but to find something else that will allow them to get their work done.
As their work is their bread and butter, we need to make delivery on time and pay our bills.

For the weekend hobbists, a longer update isn't going to effect them as their regular job is paying their bills.
They aren't bound by contract which pays the rest of your money upon delivery, maybe we should send NI our bills to pay until the product is usable.
It would be nice to get some sleep and have less worry.

K2 first, everything else once it is done.

LEX

 

I voted for 12 weeks.

1) The biggest priority for me at the moment is the "Missing Sample Crashes Host" bug. One missing sample, you lose the song and all the programming in Kontakt with it.

2) I want to load my kompakt instruments in K2 with no problems.

3) More scripting options for the masters like Big Bob, Fizbin and Pmwaring to make great things like they've been doing.

4) All the other bugs that make my friends pissed off.

The new features Mkrieg suggested sound wonderful, (pro compressor, multi scripts etc) Thanks a lot! Hope to see them soon and thanks for taking the time to talk to us, it feels good.

Have faith guys.
theo

 

Must be nice to live a life of leisure. I DON'T HAVE 12 WEEKS TO WAIT AROUND!!

 

Hi Markus,

I got Kontakt/Kompakt to play the QLSO Platinum library.

Users like me just want a "SIMPLE SAMPLE PLAYER", fast and reliable (like the EXS).

We dont care about the effects, nice editing ..... WE JUST WANT TO COMPOSE AND MAKE MUSIC using this 2900 euro library.

The other solution is that you propose to convert NI's format to EXS format so I can play my QLSO platinum lib with the EXS

Best

Cyril

 

Hi Markus,

I'm totaly with Theo on this. I didn't buy K2 as a player, I bought it to cover all my sampleing needs. Createing my own samples, libraries, instruments, and yes scripts (although I'm not quite a scripter yet).

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones, I'm useing K2 every day. Granted, it has it's problems. CPU useage is a big one and crashing when it can't find a sample is another. The scripting problems and bugs that Big Bob has brought out that incapacitates good useable scripts.

I don't want my money back. Hehe, just fix it.

TS

 

Kontakt 2 is sold as a product for those who want to work at a deeper level with samples, edit details, make loops etc. That said, I too mainly bought K2 as a sample player. Only I wanted to have the ability to edit samples now and then.

If K2 eats so many resources, maybe a K2-player that was less cpu intensive (clearly with a lot of limitations) could be included in the package? Since NI makes sample players for several libraries, including one for us shouldn't be a big deal.

 

They said they are adding a new sampler mode
that is high quality and uses more power.
So it maybe a good idea to add a sampler mode
that is only for playback, or just add lfo or some effects
like the Kompakt player has, and make it more lighter.
Then you can have a instance that is only or mainly for playback,
and another for editing or tweaking alot.
So then you could use CPU power wisely.

 

Hi all,

I have been thinking about the more frequent update approach. this might work if we do a complete stablilization now. so the 4 weeks option.

then we can fix bugs for say two weeks and do a small stbilization within 1 - 2 weeks. etc.

let me run this by the test manager since overall it will stretch the test needs but also blow them up depending on the amount of updates that are needed.


Best,
Markus

 

Hi Markus,

I'm all for small frequent releaases, it it can be accomodated. There are a number of advantages in my mind

- allows small progressive steps to be made towards stability and solid baselines to be established
- reduces the risk to end users because each update is incremental rather than trying to do everything in one hit
- it keeps the dialogue between NI and the users active, rather than having long periods of silience
- improves customer relations as it demonstrates NIs commitment to quality assurance by providing frequent fixes
- reduces the amount of time people have to live with problems.

cheers
Michael

 

Hi all,

a short statement on the performance posting(s): Could you specify WHAT precisely eats too much CPU in your opinion? I keep hearing the old EXS vs. Kontakt discussion over and over again and it hurts me obviously, since the comparison is rather unfair. The EXS cannot do too many things and as long as you take Kontakt patches which use the same limited feature set, Kontakt will definitely not be more CPU greedy. Of course you can do things with Kontakt which make even a top notch processor cough. And as I said: the basic functionality like pure sample playback, filtering, volume envelopes and the like are equal or better than the EXS, CPU wise. Trust me, I benchmarked, compared and optimized those extensively. But you CAN do much more with Kontakt (take the effects for example) and this will not be for free, unfortunately.

So if you are under the impression that something is eating too much CPU, please take a close look and try to understand where it might come from (using 10 instruments with a covolution effect each will consume, obviously). Of course there may also be bugs causing a too high CPU load, but in most cases I've seen, that's not the case. And we need precise descriptions, else we cannot do anything ("it uses too much CPU" will not help, for example).

And: the next update will contain fixed bugs which caused high CPU loads under certain circumstances (for example in cases where very many instruments were used). We also made patch loading a lot faster, for example.

To cut a long story short, if you are under the impression that something eats too much CPU, please tell us and try to be as explicit and precise as possible in your description - we can only fix things that we can reproduce.

best wishes,
Wolfgang

 

thanks, Mr. Kontakt!

I ask him to answer this one directly - so let's get down to it.

as for unanswered support requests and long time to get an answer, our support manager just confirmd that all requests via the onlin form where anwered within 48 hours in the last year.

could anybody still waiting for an answer please drop a short note? I will then forward to support.

Michael, good points here - sounds like it is worth a try.


Best,
Markus

 

I have a problem that has been posted to this forum and also thru phone support. I have yet to receive a proper answer. Here is the last message I sent:

>Hi Josef,

>Just wanted to mention that I did call tech support about >the default crash problem. They were able to replicate it on >their machine by creating a multi with one instrument (We >Have Kontakt) and saving it as the default. Kontakt then >crashes upon startup. The Tech said that he has seen this >type of problem before but that it appears to be >machine/config sensitive. I would like understand what >factors may influence this problem, any ideas?

Not being able to have a default multi load on startup is a big problem for me since my applications are stand alone installations that must run unattended and be able to startup into a working state.

 

Among other things...

Theo, your master

 

Hi Wolfgang,

I don't have EXS to any comparisons I'm afraid but the performance problems occur as soon as I load more than 3-4 basic instruments (sampler mode only no fx). With a latency of 1.5ms I can't even engage playback in Sonar 4 because the load ontne CPU is too much. Kontakt isn't even playing back anything at this stage! usual workarounds apply (increase latency, freeze tracks etc).
By the sounds of this 'idling' CPU problem has been sorted in the next release?

I suspect once this bug is sorted it will bemuch easier to see where further performance problems may lie? it's hard to see the wood for the trees right now :-(

cheers
Michael

 

Hi all,

I would like to clarify this a little bit. We generally have a return time of 48 hours or less (!) during buisness days in Technical Support, while some more complicated questions can last up to one week. So, if you do not get a reply within this time frame make sure to write a follow up or call us. Though it should be a very rare exception that you did not get a reply at all, I do not want to rule it out completely due to technical or individual mistakes. Anyway, I can assure you that it is our policy to reply to ALL incoming requests within a reasonable time.

In Registration Support we had this year - as worst case - delays up to 5 days during certain times where server related issues were occuring, but currently have no delay at all, so you can expect immediate replies during buisness days.

If you have not received a reply in return to your online support request or if you have received an inadequate reply, the best way is to provide me with the support ticket number which you get by the automatic response from our online form as well as in the reply from our support staff. If you do not have this number anymore, you should make sure that the email address entered in your forum profile is the same used for your NI user registration when you report such a case.

Best regards,

 

>>
I keep hearing the old EXS vs. Kontakt discussion over and over again and it hurts me obviously, since the comparison is rather unfair.
>>

Well, it may be unfair on the one side - but when looking at lots of sample libs (VSL, EWQLSO, etc.) they fo not need the Kontakt features, not even those of the exs24. So, from that point the comparison is dead on point.- You might argue that this is sample player functionality, whatever, in software world this is what "sampler" stands for.

>>
The EXS cannot do too many things
>>
exs could handle keyswitches and alternating keys much before Kontakt ever could. it is more limited, but as I said, most of my libraries feel very happy with the feature set of exs and do not even make use of it.



>>
and as long as you take Kontakt patches which use the same limited feature set, Kontakt will definitely not be more CPU greedy.
>>
I made a totally different experience here.
Even when not using filters etc. exs is faster, less CPU intensiv and so on. If you turn on the filters, well, the scissors go up rapidly. (And to the filters - the new ladder filter is nice, but I never was a fan of the other NI filters, those of exs are not great, but nicer IMO.
Ladder is great though.)
If you add a few IRreverbs, the difference is not only in CPU consumption, after the sure to come crash Kontakt is pretty light on the CPU - as it is not running anymore.


I think Kontakt will never get the speed of exs, and I do not really mind. The problem is, when using the features and the damn thing crashes and blows out high level sound which is very hurting. Then try to send a bug report and the glorious support form is as buggy as Kontkat or even more. And the company does not even offer to send support emails - snobbish and arrogant.

NI should not include a software compressor pro and limiter with the next update, but a real limiter, as this is the only way to protect ones ears when using Kontakt. Crashes are one thing, but hurting and damaging is quite mean.

Needless to make a comparison with exs/SpaceDesigner on that topic, right.

best

 

Hi all,

just to be realistic - EXS cannot be our comparison but Kompakt/Kontakt 1.x should be. e.g. effects should use exactly the same resources as in 1.x. how do we compare to the Kompakt player that came along with the orginal EWQLSO lib? how do we compare to GigaStudio 3, HALion 3, and MachFive?

here is my current feeling of priority:

* crashes will be looked at first; noise burts are of coure also a no-no

* performance enhancement are second

* then we will take a good look at importing 1.x/Kompakt/ Intakt patches

* after that comes everything that does not work like it should, e.g. the database

* next up are cosmetic things and usability

* finally come new features

convolution: I need to caution with this one since we had performance enhancement done in 2.0.2. I don't think that the 3rd party developers can push it much further than they already did. crashes are of course always must fixes!

import: we have a long term servicing contract wit Garth for this part so I do not expext any fixing problems here.

everything else is directly in the hands of the Kontakt team.


Best,
Markus

 

You do compare very bad also between EXS and Kontakt 1.53 / Kompakt as I can play the "from the new world symphony" of Anton Dvorak using VSL and the EXS on a G4 533MP and I cannot play it on a G5 2x2 using Kompakt/Kontakt 1.53 using the QLSO Platinum

Comparaison between K 1.53 and K2 is 33 % overload using the same Qlso samples on the same song

answering to Mr Kontakt :
If you have read my test I was using the same samples with the EXS and with K2 so the test was fare. (60 v.s 480 voices in favor of the EXS)
If K2 was around 350 to 400 voices that would be OK but it is 8 times slower. NI should hire some of Emagic programmers !

With the EXS you can do a lot that Kontakt 2 can do, the editing is not very user friendly but you can do a lot.

In a musician work, you have two task :
- compose = 99 %
- make your own sounds = 1 %

Having the same tool to make both task is not a good aproach as the second task will need a lot resources.

Again : why do you need a reverb, phasers.... in K2 ? Logic as much better effects. If you are rich, Wave effects are even better

Scripting language : Not a solution we are not programmers but musicians; Have you seen Synful http://www.synful.com/index.htm , and the VSL Cube http://vsl.co.at/en-us/211/344/227.vsl, this is the approach ; it the job of the software to analyse what is defined and play the right articulations, i.e. when you play staccato, staccato samples are used, when you play legato legato samples are used....

An EXS editor "Keymap" is coming out soon : see http://www.redmatica.com/Site/Pages/KM.php

If you want to do wave editing and looping your samples you have a very nice sample editor called D-sound Pro and called now DSP-Quattro.

If NI is bringing a "fast sampler player" of there protected format, I am a happy user !

AGAIN I just want to be able to play my QLSO library !