Portable PA system recommendations

Hi all,

I'm about ready to venture out and begin playing in public. I'm planning on doing small to mid-size venues, such as coffee houses, bars, campuses, and recreation centers. To do that, I believe I need to invest in a PA system, as I assume most places don't have the necessary setup to always plug into (although that'd be nice).

I have just about everything else I need down to the soundcard, which is a NI Audio Kontrol 1. From there, I imagine I could get away with a basic but powerful amp (no FX or fancy features necessary) and a pair of small but pumping speakers. I play mostly dance/electronica, for reference.

I thought about renting a PA system whenever one can't be provided, but I want to play often and I could BUY a decent one for the cost of renting half a dozen times. I don't expect to get paid anytime soon, so I set a budget for my starter system between $300-400.

I looked at the Kustom PA Profile One, which is close to what I'm thinking; I heard it sounds great and everything packs up easy, but the speakers are pretty fragile (made of some stiff paperboard). I need something a little more rugged, but I like the idea of a compact "pack and go" unit. I can fit all my other stuff (laptop, controller, soundcard, USB drive, headphones, cables, etc.) into a single Slappa bag, so I'd like to keep the PA compact, too.

I don't know if I'm being unrealistic, but I'll admit I'm a newbie with a lot to learn! Any suggestions would be gladly appreciated!

Cheers,

 

I have ALOT of pa equipment. It can be daunting to invest in the gear. For an average DJ system that is professional level your minimal investment will be 3-7000 dollars. That is for professional equipment. There are various tiers down to the cheapest thing youcan buy for 50 or a hundred dollars... you can take your pick. for newer stuff.

For starting out my suggestions are these.

Used gear. --sometimes you can find a pair of old PA mains and an Amplifier for around five hundred dollars. Look for heavy duty cabinets. Stay away from older-cheapo brands. As these units are probably shot.

Good cabinets from peavey jbl ev yorkville carvin etc. You can tell the good ones as they will be heavy and usually won't have a carpet covering. two solid vintage cabinets for 400$ is not a bad find. .. if they work. If they don't work and the build is good. You can always add new quality drivers for about 120$ a cabinet.

Older amps can be pretty sketchy, some can have alot of noise, and fried input stages are sometimes the main reason the amp is sitting in the pawn shop. Also look for well known brands that weren't cheap to begin with. A viable dig might be a 2x300 watt peavy PA head for 150$ that sort of thing.

One route that many djs are going with ( and one that I like) is to use modular powered speakers . there is no amp and speaker cords to deal with . You just plug your input cable into the speaker and plug the power cable in and its ready. Some models have small mixers on the input so you can add a microphone or other input device. One speaker like this of a quality professional build might cost 500-2500$

Also .. powered monitors that guitar players use are sometimes a good bet. The unit may have a a small mixing work station on it. Like these.

http://www.laney.co.uk/show_prod.php?prod=ah200
http://www.laney.co.uk/show_prod.php?prod=cx15-a.


another idea is to do it ghetto style. And just rack up some old home stereo recievers so they look like a PA system. I actually really like this. The amplifiers in some of those old consumer grade stereos were pretty kickin. Even stuff from the eighties and ninites with 200 to 300 watts of power might be found for 35 or 40$. then just get out your tools and build a case for em. You can power Professional cabinets with consumer amps. They just have to have enough power. And some of them have pretty awesom bridging capabilities. So you might get 500 watts from a 35$ amp. ! then run two of them and youve got a bangin system. You can do the same thing with home stereo speakers. Rebuilding the cabinets and building new cabinets for old electronics can be a lot of fun too. Speakers from the 80s and 90s can be found for 50$ a pair. Again look for brands that were quality when they were produced. then just add carpet and handles and grills and paint em up.

there is an interesting video you should watch about consumer electronics at this site...

http://www.storyofstuff.com/

Some very awesome systems have been built this way . And its the way of many jamaican djs to build thier systems. with a huge wall of pieced together gear. The tech on these is crazey. It can be alot of fun too. start small .. build big .. good vibes in good vibes out. its simple to keep it simple


http://www.switchpod.com/users/lo4c/SoundSystem.jpg

http://www.ethnomusic.ucla.edu/courses/fall/2006/25/IMG/dukereid.jpg

http://www.reggaeunlimited.com/images/uploads/soundsystem1.jpg

http://www.punk77.co.uk/graphics/slits2/slits_4.jpg

http://www.fodderstompf.com/IMAGES/art/system.jpg

 

For that amount of money you won't get much quality if you want a full speaker setup, which I would think would ideally be 2 mains plus a sub, all self-powered.

I'd suggest to start with a single main speaker such as the JBL Eon 15" self-powered, second-hand to get the cost down. It won't sound that much different from a pair plus sub, and you can just add the others later. You could rent one for about $40 as a test.

Mackie has the SRM450 which is very popular but it's 12" and doesn't have the low-end bass. A V2 version just came out that is lighter at 40 lb and better sound. They have 15 inchers that sound even better & more bass but in heavier wood cabinets.

 

The old SRM 450's are awesome speakers and still one of my favs for smaller spaces and when teamed up with a good sub produce execllent sound in big spoaces too.

There are plenty of people who will swear at, rather than by, the new 450's though. I hear the the new 450's are chinnese built and people are saying they break easily. I believe the amps and drivers are both where people are complaining.

Phil

 

yes .. in professional sound circles you know to keep the old ones seperate with a piece of red tape on the handle. And make sure some one doesn't switch yours for theirs.

The original company that made the internals on those speakers --here

basically the original 450's
http://www.rcf.it/vediMacro.phtml/s...ttivo/1674/m1/0/ARTSeriesART310-A/product.htm

 

These are areas of great contention, so remember that when I (or anybody) make a recommendation -- trust your ears and your budget first!

That said, I'm a big fan of Samson, Soundtech, and B-52 speakers if you're on a budget and don't have to shake the walls. I also think powered mixers are a good portable and budget-conscious solution. Yamaha and Phonic make excellent and affordable ones. All of these are quite affordable used.

 

ok one more post on this .. I like this floor monitor. A powered floor monitor can be had for about 400$ . Its one piece . Its really loud 150 watt rms. And its the basic monitor that any musician is going to be using--15 incher. So if you make the jump to stage shows and performing with a band. this piece will serve you some utilitarian ends.

This laney is discontinued but it has a BLT (UK) amp and mix section in it. The laney stuff has gone the eastern route as well like mackie and im currently lookin for decent replacements for these systems. Laney had some nice stuff if you can find it. But stay away from their smaller PA heads. they don't suck .. but not some of their finer efforts. I do like the sound of the laneys ...I have 10 of these powered units now. All the British build so Im pretty happy with them. I recently blew-up a pair of 10s and a pair 15's so im gonig to replace the transducers with EV components. well see how that sounds.

The thing about a good monitor is that you can always use it to give yourself a reference sound. I f you are playing small shows like cafe's and restaurants youcan use it for all the sound. If you end up doing bigger stuff it can be your personal mix monitor. owning your equipment is owning your sound. You have to like it. And it should be consistant and portable. You can rent the rest of the set-up but a good monitor is personal.

The brands that boysteve mentioned are all good too.! I ve had good sounds from all those speaker types.

Guitar cabs for Djs. actually a pretty good idea.. check out JUSTICE their gear is evident. DAFTYBANGERSTYLeee..

 

Hey, thanks for all the suggestions! I like the idea of active speakers that I can hook up to right from my AK1. I don't feel anywhere near confident enough to rig something together from old speakers, but as a resource economist by trade, I'm glad to see someone mention the Story of Stuff!

I guess my best bet is to try and find some good used gear. JBL EONs are hard to come by, as they get snatched right up! I saw a pair of used Behringer Eurolives for a good price...I have Behringer MS40s for studio monitors, and I heard they're produced in the same facilities as Mackie stuff. As cheap starter gear, would that suffice?

Also, I saw someone mention how it's always good to get 15+" woofers, as the 12" tend to blow out more. Is that really an issue? If the issue really just comes down to quality, it probably would make more sense to finance better gear now instead of just having to replace it a year from now...

 

Really? I never thought about that. Do many people start out this way? It certainly is a good idea...

 

for what its worth.. my seven cents

ive seen a lot of technical riders that specifically say ."NO JBL EON"

..Ive also been present when they crap out on many occasions.

just food for thought.

the powered wedges with wood bodies and durable coating or toughskin-type covering are what you want to shoot for. 500 dollars will get you a pretty nice unit with a good amp. maybe even 300 watts.

wood sounds better and it resonates better.

also the plastic cabinets suck to work on. ive 10 of them and three need to be worked on... imnot happy to do it. the wood cabinets with simple infastructure are easy.. wood is good. .

blow outs are more often attributed to user error than size.

tens and twelves are gonna be more crisp and vocal sounding . 15s are going to be thicker.

Im building a set of dj monitor wedges with 7 sansui(old consumer gear) solid state amplifiers in them.. The transducers are horn, 3", 6" , 10", 18"

For amplifying your self .. a 15" works for dj music . but if you plan on singing through the thing .. get a 12" cause it notches better for controlling feedback.

I found one of the discontinued monitors that im freaking out about here--


http://www.wwbw.com/Laney-CP15-i250...-EBD1-DC11-BE2A-001422107090&mr:referralID=NA

 

The smartest thing in this whole post. If you know you are going to be busy enough and can make a return on your investment, that would be the best bet. Why buy cheap stuff when you are going to be making a "living" off of this. Even if you are just starting out but you know you are determined to do this for a while and want to make a decent buck, I would suggest to get the best equipment you can afford. I can almost guarantee you that if you show up to a job with professional quality equipment the people hiring you will know that you are a professional quality DJ and will make these people think twice to hire a guy with some shoddy equipment that can crap out an any moment. Also I would recommend going with something a bit more powerful, because it is always easier to turn the volume down if you are too loud, but if you are not loud enough in a small bar or coffee house and the guy says turn it up, what are you gonna say? "I can't my system is not powerful enough" With that said, I would go with the self powered, I strongly recommend the JBL Eon 15 G2. I have heard the fender passport systems are good as well. Also check out a brand called FBT I believe the model you want is called the Jolly. Funny name but these speakers pump out some serious sound supposed to be better than the JBL's

 

also when you hook up the ak-1 -- be advised that the outputs are"balanced" connections and will sound best if a trs connector is used.

there are trs to xlr converters(balanced) and also preamping devices that can turn your balanced signal into something very tasty.

most small format PA mixers will accept balanced connections.

Plugging mono 1/4 instrument cables or rca's with adapters will not harm your sound but the unbalanced connection as well as long unbalanced cable lengths can cause serious problems.


Ive been doing cafe and small bars with single monitors like the laney wedge for several years and its always plenty for a simple space -- With patrons who didn't specifically come to watch you rock out. And these are the higher paying gigs in general. Ive more been asked to turn my equipment down than up. In these situations and is a good reason for the wedge to be pointed right at my face or be by my ear. People in cafe's and restaurants and small intimate clubs like to hear one another talk. A club proper ... usually has its own sound system .. but not necessarilly a good monitor.

 

Oh yeah I forgot about the sound card. Make sure it has balanced outputs. I know nothing about the AK1, so if it does then you are ok. I bought a MOTU 828, I justified the $800 because I wanted a rackmountable sound card (that was my only reasoning). Also if you can, try to squeeze in a BBE 882 right before the speakers It will make you sound very tasty and give a few more db's of sound.

 

Mackie SRM 450s are all you'll need for what you're doing. I have a full PA with two 400 watt monitors and a Mackie 800 watt sub.

Those Mackie SRMs are like angels from heaven. Two of those guys can almost compete with my whole PA. I now add them into my full PA rig for even more sick sound.

By no means am I Mackie fanatic, but SRMs are absolutely the bomb.

 

please keep in mind that our thread has a 400 dollar budget.

My PA cost 35,000 and trust me it is the bomb. and has gotten me near arrested on two different occasions.

 

35,000! Goodness.

That's gotta be big noise.

 

yes it is big big noise and it has killed my back too - eegad. >

10 18s 6 of which ive rebuilt
10 15" high cabs
8 monitors powered
4 satellite systems
two live consols
16 2000 watt amplifiers
14 channels compression
22 microphones
one mile of xlr
lighting
the list goes on.........and on.

 

Holy Sh!t
X, where do you get the power for all this stuff ? You have to carry a nuclear power pant with you…

Odysseas

 

I have rarely set it all up together .. I usually run

16,000 watts rms
8 18s
6 main cabs
4 wedge monitors
on monitor mix mackie 1642vlz /main mix on one sound craft lx7ii foh
16 microphones maximum
motu-traveler for recording
motu-8 pre-recording
one of these:brand new actually
http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=ASD-120

+lighting etc. and other junk.

the picture is the first system i had @my club. $club went broke$ and I have since revised it. and hopefulley will be getting some good hire work this summer.

for a small show I do

8000 watts rms
4 18's
4 main cabs
4 powered monitors
foh board
recording rig and mics + compression


for dj work I do

two eighteens two cabs 4000 watts + motu and FOH or 1642 vlz


for cafe or department store

macintosh+ one powered monitor and special headphone break out Y cable

I have set up a twenty five thousand watt rigg in a woodland rave type thing but we did not have enough power to crank it all the way up . hence my new distruibution center. and that was one instance i was questioned by authorities.

 

ok, I got the picture . Too bad you aren’t in Greece, otherwise I would rent my next big gig’s PA rig from you for sure

Odysseas