possibilites for doing a whole machine liveset

Discussion in 'Feature Request Archive' started by alex254, Nov 3, 2011.

  1. alex254

    alex254 New Member

    Messages:
    5
    hej guys,

    i am thinking of how to do a whole set with machine, so going from track to track. By looking at the forum there seem to be a few possibilities:

    1) put your tracks in different groups, play everything standalone
    2) run two instances of Maschine in Ableton (I tried this, obviously the two tracks are in sync, but when I add the second maschine I lose control over the first maschine instance.....even when i arm the first instances the midi signals of my maschine hardware keep going to the second one. Did anyone try this and have the same problem?) if this were to be solved doing a whole liveset could be possible in ableton although i'm not sure whether the cpu could manage it.....
    3) put two or multiple instances in KORE, haven't tried this yet so I am not sure if this works well...maybe someone can share his findings?
    4) i found a rather interesting suggestion in another topic; what if it were possible to load two instances of machine in two decks of traktor; instead of running it parrallel as it is now, you would put traktor and maschine in series. This way you could use traktor's dj transition features to mix both machine tracks together! I quite like this idea!

    any other possible solutions i am overseeing?

    cheers alex
     
  2. hyena666

    hyena666 NI Product Owner

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    yes, and that's stopping to think of a liveset as a collection of tracks and start thinkin it as a whole, organic composition you can play with.
    scenes are there to let you organize your patterns in every way you want, so you can have different moments , atmospheres, segments....or drops, buildups , transitions.

    i think too much people say liveset but think djset. even with ableton or maschine.
     
  3. Sharpsignal

    Sharpsignal NI Product Owner

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    30
    you have a very good point hyena666, but..

    The thing is though, .. a lot of people don't just start creating a liveset but have already created many standalone tracks, and use different files for their tracks. And then it would be ideal to be able to play them live in one set withouth having to recreate everything in one file but just "mix" their tracks..

    I would like to see this being reality aswell. The workflow with Reason is awesome.. 2 instances playing sync, switching tracks and automatically resync with the host on opening another file. It has been working great for years. This possibility with maschine would be nice.
     
  4. hyena666

    hyena666 NI Product Owner

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    109
    that will be really handy but it depends on how much cpu are you already consuming on a single instance...
    and i think there are many workarounds...you can even just have VLC or quicktime or itunes open with an array of atmospheric samples that you can fire while loading the new track, or use an external effect like a kaoss pad , or , as i often do, a micromodular with some crazy noise\ambience patch...
     
  5. kuhfuss.fm

    kuhfuss.fm NI Product Owner

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    176
    Hyena is a creative one. Good idea about filling loading time with sound from another app!
    The whole question ist how you organize your set. You can indeed load one "song" into one group and play eight of them from there. That´s orderly and fast, but as hyena already said, deprives you of the great improvizing capabilities that constitute one of Maschine´s big pros.
    I use my groups in parallel (two for drums, one for base, one for lead, etc.) which makes good sense for routing and effects. This was I can reach 65min of sound in one set and still have some space left.

    How do you do it?
     
  6. Sharpsignal

    Sharpsignal NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    30
    I just bought maschine and I also just thought of going the approach kuhfuss.fm just metioned. Should give some serious flexibility aswell. I also have ableton live so when adding that into the mix it creates endless possibilities. I would try to tone down on the vst use (or export some parts to wav before playing live) though to keep the stability to a maximum.
     
  7. kuhfuss.fm

    kuhfuss.fm NI Product Owner

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    176
    Rendering definitely does it in terms of CPU usage. If i´m pretty sure, it sounds like what I wanted I render it anyway.... The "deep freeze" function in Logic took this one step further. There You could render and un-render, so to speak, whenever You wanted to change something afterwards. The problem with Maschine plugins is that they keep consuming resources even when they´re muted. Be sure to kick them out of Your set after rendering....
     
  8. Sharpsignal

    Sharpsignal NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    30
    will do then. perhaps something for an update then.. being able to turn off plugins instead of just mute them. Is this also when you shift click the plugin so it "bypasses" it or turns it off.

    And that freeze function is indeed very handy. Ableton live has that aswell.
     
  9. kuhfuss.fm

    kuhfuss.fm NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    176
    You´re right there, Sharpsignal. I am not sure, whether the sustained processor load caused by muted plugins is due to CPU or RAM usage (***** Hi there, NI, anyone listening in on this?****), but my CPU load as indicated by Maschine does not decrease on bypass.
     
  10. de wouzer

    de wouzer NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,661
    Till today I looped maschine in S4, then load a new track in maschine... and mix it with the loop.

    Now I bought a kaoss pad (with sampler inside) what do you think about my idea to loop maschine in kp3, then load a new track in maschine and mix them, to go on to the next maschine song?
     
  11. hyena666

    hyena666 NI Product Owner

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    109
    sounds like a good idea to me. lots of people use it like that.
     
  12. FastGraph

    FastGraph NI Product Owner

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    49
    You can start a second standalone instance of maschine (just copy the executable) and load your next song. Then switch to the second instance using the controller to start your next song. Don't know if they're syncable tho.

    This, and track mute will probably have me switching back to mpc when the renaissance comes out if NI doesn't come up with an alternative.
     
  13. fraktured

    fraktured Forum Member

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    20
    Why don't you guys just improvise? It works quite well with Maschine..
     
  14. zeoka

    zeoka NI Product Owner

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    669
    Multiple instances in a host means
    instance hardware navigation :

    Kore : view+ arrows to select instance+enter
    Maschine : shift&step +turn knob+button 4 to load

    NI hardware are madeto work without issues in multiple projects.

    Kore standalone (with several maschines )is a good solution.

    Kore performance presets can economize cpu greatly : by saving the
    vst device mutes in a preset.

    + you have 16 knobs+8buttons to control and very important : you can focus on the patterns and change vst params of others group at same time(via maschine macros and kore knobs) or access quickly to maschine aux sends beside it.

    To replace stretched loops of live there is kontakt 5 ( i admit in live it so simple but the result is nice and sounds better imo.)

    Don't forget kore have midi players wich are useful and can be triggered by any midi device or maschine even if maschine is in kore.
    You can stop them also by a midi note or kore hardware.
    You can directly drag&drop a group pattern in them .

    The inverse (several kores in maschine standalone)is less interresting at this time : waiting for multicore......... or/and midi bank/program change for each patterns
     
  15. kuhfuss.fm

    kuhfuss.fm NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    176
    Why don´t we just improvise? Good question. Of course you tend to use a lot less scenes if you vary what´s going on within the scene by e.g. muting parts. If you´re trying to develop some kind of choreography then you´re bound to use fixed structures (like automation, for instance)giving your musical flow a backbone so to speak. Improvising compeletely in my experience can render your set rather flat and tensionless.
     
  16. noiserot

    noiserot Forum Member

    Messages:
    1,865
    Hold shift and hit the module slot above the LCDs to disable them and then there will be no CPU hit at all. Mute does not disable.
     
  17. kuhfuss.fm

    kuhfuss.fm NI Product Owner

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    176
    Thx for being helpful. I do read the manual (though not often enough I admit ;).
    The two screenshots below illustrate my CPU usage first with plugins (3xreaktor 5.7, 2xmassive) on and then with plugins deactivated (I agree, "muted" sounds like muting the track). Note the difference? I don´t.
    The situation changes only when I unload the plugins from their respective modules.
    Anyone w/ the same problem?

    Thx for sharing!

    MacBookPro i7 Quadcore , 2,5GHz, 16MB RAM, 128GB SSD
     

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  18. noiserot

    noiserot Forum Member

    Messages:
    1,865
  19. zeoka

    zeoka NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    669
    Uncorrect
    Kore or bloxpander are doing that not maschine
    In maschine you can cut the device but not stop his cpu usage.
     
  20. kuhfuss.fm

    kuhfuss.fm NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    176
    So, here comes a screenshot of CPU usage AFTER ALL Plugins have been UNLOADED from their respective slots. My impression is that the overall load (idle as well as running) increases with the set length (i.e. the number of scenes and/or sounds used). This gets to the point where You cannot add any more voices, and sooner so than I would expect from up-to-date hardware.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks for discussing this with me!
     

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