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Pricing and package model shoots by NI's own customers.

Discussion in 'KONTROL F1' started by scamo, 16/3/12.

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  1. scamo

    scamo Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    321
    Hi,

    If NI can at all make an "unbundled" version with a lower price, they should do so. The problem simply is, the F1 can be stand alone, but it is really a great addition to the S2 and the S4 and I bet it is actually there where the biggest market for the product is. So NI is shooting past the best market they have, they're own customers, by bundling the F1 with Traktor 2.5. Their own customers have the software license already.

    If NI could sell the F1 for say $80-$90 less without the Traktor license, they would probably sell a lot more of them faster. I'd also be much less reluctant to buy two F1s, if they were only 199.- Euros (or less.:)). Now I have to pay 500,00 Euros and I am stuck with two extra TP licenses I just don't need (and don't want to waste time selling on e-bay).

    scamo
     
    scamo, 16/3/12
    #1
  2. Freak Show

    Freak Show Forum Member

    Messages:
    134
    There's already a thread like this
     
    Freak Show, 16/3/12
    #2
  3. kraal

    kraal NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    468
    the software is FREE with the controller there will be no other pricing
     
    kraal, 16/3/12
    #3
  4. scamo

    scamo Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    321
    Where? I couldn't find one.

    scamo
    ---
    Which is a two fold mistake. NI is causing the residual value of the software to drop immensely and they are absolutely adding no value to the package for their current customers, which are most likely their biggest market for the product.

    It is a very stupid packaging/ marketing decision.

    scamo
     
    scamo, 17/3/12
    #4
  5. Freak Show

    Freak Show Forum Member

    Messages:
    134
    Freak Show, 17/3/12
    #5
  6. ekwipt

    ekwipt NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1.109
    Traktor has been basically free for a while now, buy a X1, S2 or S4 you get Traktor for free, same now for the F2. I dont really see the problem, everyone who already owns the software gets a free update.

    If you don't know it already you'll be paying for the update to TSP3 when it gets released next year.
     
    ekwipt, 17/3/12
    #6
  7. gNNY

    gNNY NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    82
    however, while with S2 and S4 you get the Pro version, with X1 you "only" get the LE version. And the price difference between X1 and F1 is pretty much the upgrade price between LE and Pro version...
     
    gNNY, 18/3/12
    #7
  8. audio_processing

    audio_processing NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    41
    the point is :
    at 250€ it is too expensive !
    at 160€ (2 for 300) it's a bargain
    (novation lauchpad is at 155€)
     
    audio_processing, 18/3/12
    #8
  9. lattridge

    lattridge Forum Member

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    23
    The point is that native Instruments knows its not shooting it self in the foot because it knows loyal fans will buy it regardless.

    They know they can make more money this way, and no amount of moaning and complaining from loyal customers is going to change that because in the end,

    We just put up with it.

    Kore is a prime example and this is just another journey on the NI money spinning merry go round
     
    lattridge, 18/3/12
    #9
  10. Scaper7

    Scaper7 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    725
    Unless of course you already paid for TP2. In which case you're buying a second license you don't need.

    For me it now makes sense not to buy the TP2 upgrade as i had planned. Instead I should now watch out not to throw away my money in NIs marketing game and wait until May30 when I'll buy an F1. It seems a pointless inconvenience for existing customers really.
     
    Scaper7, 18/3/12
    #10
  11. TomDooley0075

    TomDooley0075 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    3.299
    hm, I bought Traktor Pro 1.x.x for 99,- as a special spring offer.
    I used is many many times and made some nice (payed) jobs. Traktor is worth it every cent, and I'm thinking of buyin' a F1 instead of gettin' an update from TP 1 to 2.x
    So i really don't worry about 249,- Euros for getting updated software AND a nice - additional - controller ...
     
    TomDooley0075, 18/3/12
    #11
  12. ekwipt

    ekwipt NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1.109
    what do you mean if you have the software of course you bought it? Unless you're a pirate arrrghhhh
     
    ekwipt, 19/3/12
    #12
  13. Scaper7

    Scaper7 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    725
    I own TP1. I have a choice to upgrade to TP2 now and pay for the upgrade or wait until F1 is released and get it bundled with TP2.5 ... at which point I believe I will then own 2 licenses; 1 for TP1 [still upgradeable] and 1 for TP2.5 .

    Pieces of eight ... erbee ... jez moin whu yer callin a poirate thar matey else me parrot moight chew yer noze.
     
    Scaper7, 19/3/12
    #13
  14. scamo

    scamo Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    321
    Um, because the F1 is probably a better "tool" with equipment like an S2, S4 or even a USB capable mixer, it means most people interested in the F1 already have Traktor. So "giving" Traktor with the F1 to customers already with licenses just doesn't mean there is any more pull to pay the fairly high price. If the controller simply costs that much to put on the market and there is no chance to lower the price, then so be it. That would also explain the situation. However, if NI CAN market the F1 without the software at a lower price, they should definitely do it, because that is where their main market is.

    It should be like a Wii, Nintendo or X-Box. They come packaged at a higher price with software (a game), but "naked" they cost a base price. This is all I am asking for.

    If NI's customers blindly accept the conditions and pay for the F1, then that is their problem. I am going to wait a bit and see what happens. Maybe if most customers did the same, NI would have to react. But I am also afraid enough customers will just buy the F1 at the starting price and sit their with one or two extra licenses and have no use for them. What a waste....

    Oh well!

    scamo
     
    scamo, 19/3/12
    #14
  15. Scaper7

    Scaper7 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    725
    I don't like being hedged in by dubious marketing ploys. It puts me off buying anything from that company at all. Already, this move on NI's behalf has put me off buying the TP2 upgrade as well as the recent George Duke offerings. I'll buy the F1 when it comes out in the full knowledge that I'm paying for a second completely unnecessary license despite NI's claim that it's 'free'. Not to mention this devalues (trashes) the license I've already paid for.
     
    Scaper7, 19/3/12
    #15
  16. willisnz

    willisnz NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    142
    It is hardly a 'dubious marketing ploy'. There is nothing unusual about the way the F1 is being released. It is a strategy that has been employed by all sorts of companies around the world.

    TBH the F1 looks to be pretty reasonably priced as a Controller compared to the X1. I think that is why the majority of people are looking forward to it's release.

    If NI decide to package the new software with it for free then so be it. They have decided to use this opportunity to grab new customers as well as offer an exciting new product to their existing market.

    I think just under 1m views of the original F1 video on youtube, and just under 250k views of the new F1 video are a clear indication of the interest in this product.

    I don't think continually insisting that NI are charging for the software, when they have stated it is free with the F1, is going to change any minds or marketing decisions. NI marketing dept will have considered the existing user base as well as potential new customers when deciding on the pricing model.

    If you feel that NI are gouging you, then talk with your wallet and don't buy the F1.
     
    willisnz, 19/3/12
    #16
  17. scamo

    scamo Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    321
    No one said NI was gouging anyone. At least I wasn't. My suggestion is, if NI IS calculating part of the F1 price with the software (and hoping to get returns for its development), then they should drop the software and offer just the hardware without the software for a lower price. Even if it is $20-$30, it is better then paying more for something I just don't need or want.

    If NI's price is based just on the hardware alone and adding the software is supposed to be an addition to make the relatively high price more attractive, then that is also an explanation. It's a poor one, but I could accept it as a reason. I guess I'll never actually know, but at least I made my point here and I hope NI's marketing staff might take just a little notice.

    scamo
     
    scamo, 19/3/12
    #17
  18. lattridge

    lattridge Forum Member

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    23
    Scamo,

    When are you going to realise that ni have made a business decision and that doesn't include selling the f1 On its own. No matter how much you think it makes sense, its not going to happen.

    H
     
    lattridge, 20/3/12
    #18
  19. scamo

    scamo Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    321
    I sure realize it. And I am saying it is a mistake for both NI and their customers.

    I'd probably also say the decision won't be changed for the initial sale, because the packaging (the boxes, the software) is already bought. But NI could be so bold to say, "Dear customers, we do listen to feedback and because of the feedback about the packaging of the F1 with the TP software, we are going to also sell the F1 without the software for $X in approximately X weeks after the initial sale. We want as many happy customers as possible."

    This would also need to be stated before the initial sale start, so then customers know there is an alternative and can either wait for the better deal or go for the more expensive licensed package.

    Only NI is stopping themselves.

    scamo
     
    scamo, 20/3/12
    #19
  20. Freak Show

    Freak Show Forum Member

    Messages:
    134
    Since when did people care so much about how well NI does w/ it's sales? Answer is simple, if you dnt think it's worth it's price then you dnt buy. Remember you could always sell the license, and even if the market is flooded w/ licenses I'm sure you could still get at least $25
     
    Freak Show, 20/3/12
    #20
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