Question about maschine drum synth and coryright

Im just wondering about copyright and the drum synths in Maschine, would the sounds they generate to copyright protected.

Im thinking say you were going to make a simple library for commercial use, obliviously the sampled material is out of bounds, but what about sounds created by the the drum synths?

 

In the discussions I've been around, the general feeling is if it's a synth, and you program the sound you may sample it.

 

Thats pritty much my usual feeling, but it doesn't feel like your programming a synth when you use these, theres a lot done for you so it got me wondering.

 

Add saturation, compression, EQ, etc after the drum synth.

they'll never know...

 

I see what you mean about there being "a lot done for you", but just think of that as the default patches being set up as a drum sound. The default patch on most synths is usable, even if basic.

Pretty much my thinking too.

I suppose it also depends on how you would market these sample packs... Would they be advertised as Maschine drum synth samples? Or just as a drum synth sample pack?

 

True

I guess so, they are a bit more rounded then a an init patch but I get you.

As for marketing not entirely sure yet, but most likely they would just be advertised and treated as drum sounds. they would be along side other sounds as well of course.

but then who knows would there be a market for kits to be sold in maschine format. (?)

 

I think if you can offer Maschine format, one or two other formats, and definitely the raw uncompressed formats (wav, aiff), there will definitely be a market... IF the packs are good.

 

indeed, that will always be the challenge

 

technically even the samples of the instruments can be used as well for that purpose as long as they are re-recorded, looping back, external mic, or routing to a DAW, and not taken directly from the digital files as complete copies, because they are considered musical instruments used in performance - just like if you record say a fender guitar or yamaha motif keyboard (the rom contains the digital files), regardless of effects. including massive presets, reaktor, m2 drum, fm 8... etc...

 

you can use anything that comes with maschine as long as you don't use it to create a competing sound library. So all the drum synths are fair game but making sample packs with them (for sale/profit) is a no go.

 

I don't think you have to do that even. Anything that comes with Maschine is fair game for use commercially. I'd assume Komplete is the same, seeing as it's marketed for a studio environment.

 

I guess technically its hard to prove to the contrary, but would still be an unethical practise. If I am going to make a commercial sample pack I would rather do it ethically and not steel the work of others.

Thats the whole point I planning on making a commercial sample library.

Making sample packs with the synths is a perfectly legit thing to do as long as you build the patch your self.

 

it states in the terms and conditions that nothing is to be used to make a commercial library competing with maschine. Now i'm sure you could get away with it but it is not allowed. You can sell the music you make with the synths but you can't sell the sounds themselves.

 

I see, well i did wonder if they would make the drum synths off bounds. hence the thread

I can't see how sounds made on massive and the other synths like that could be included in that though.

Where abouts are the t & c's

 

i respect your choice based on your ethics and not our corrupt laws.

so if you sample a fender guitar or say a yamaha motif, you are stealing? the sounds, rom in the synth, and from the fender pickups are copyrighted and/or patented. like i said, it is not theft or unethical if you resample it via a physical recording, just a bit inconsiderate and rude, you could say unethical, if you do so internally via software without enhancing it: like recording though a tube mic a snare sample that is projecting from a speaker toward a snare drum, effecting, laying, or running it though analog effects.

.. which would make the NI m2 808 and 909 kit theft and unethical, as those sounds are the property of roland.. .... setting a precedent...

most of the current copyright laws were pushed forward by companies that made their fortunes stealing from others prior to said laws, in order to protect their stolen assets from being stolen... don't you just love the system..

 

there is a difference to sampling a guitar and using samples from a sample library though. the sounds of a guitar have not been copyrighted. the samples in NI have been and are not owed by us they are still owned by NI and they licence them to us to be used for specific purposes, but we have to act within the licence we are granted. I have not read NI's agreement but on the sample packs I have read them on they prohibit resampling in they way you describe. so to do so would be unethical.

 

the standard user agreement state free use for commercial recordings but may not be redistributed in sample collections, which means as a direct digital copy of the unique sound. if i take a NI drum and send it from the NI software and record it in another DAW, the sample and sound may now be used anyway i please, including in a commercial sample pack, as that sound has now been created as an entirely new sound by way of recording and is no longer a direct copy of the work. it differs in that this is for a sound, and not an arrangement, like in a song, when you record you are creating an entirely new digital version that is a different unique file even if it sounds the same or similar.

now it would be rude to do so and of questionable ethics if one was not to change it in some way, but not illegal - but if one was to do so an blatantly name them the same with entire libraries, expect a letter from their lawyers requesting a cease order or proof that the work is unique in some way.

i am not advocating copying NI's sounds, but encouraging people to create their own sounds and collections without fear using what they have and giving it a new edge - we call that progress...

take it from bowie, what your need you have to borrow....

 

They would be advertised however you want. if you don't do something unique to them, most will hear generic samples and go back to free sample hunting. the 'synthesized' part is what gets rid of copyright worry. FM8 can't stop my from recording the init patch and selling it as a sample, right?

However, I am not making a sample pack and selling it. lol

 

that's brings up another point, why would someone who has maschine, and it's included lib, buy samples that were the same as included... so there would be no point in using maschine factory samples for an expansion pack unless they were recreated and effected in someway...

 

cool, it doesn't as onerous I was thinking, but I still have no intensions using the sampled material.

The drum synths I'm still debating with myself on. theres no ethical reason not to, but I'm still not sure on weather or they are covered by the same copyright, it seems they are from an earlier post.