Question for AK 1 users

Hi AK1 users.

I'm a regular on the Traktor forum. I need to update my soundcard (M-Audio Quattro) to a USB 2.0 alternative.

I was considering the AK 1 but after reading this forum I have concerns.

Should I forget it and buy a Fast Track Pro instead?

 

M-Audio Fast Track Pro is only USB 1.1

 

Thanks.

Would you recommend the AK1?

 

Don't know, I'm currently considering (see the "NI Support" thread).

Just try and find another USB 2 device with 4 outputs though!!!!

Theres the Edirol 1010 and that's about it for less than £500.00.

 

Are you sure the Fast Track Pro isn't USB 2? (Seems quite a few retailers advertising it as such)

 

Yes I am sure.

It also suffers limitations as a result of using the old, slow USB 1.1 connection - namely the inability to record and playback simultaniously at high quality settings (eg 24bit 96khz).

I don't think M-Audio make *any* USB 2.0 interfaces, even their new torq / connective products seem to use the old USB 1.1 standard. Bearing in mind how long USB 2.0 has been around, and the huge difference in speed/bandwith, this suggests to me they are having some development issues which is preventing them from making a reliable USB 2.0 unit!

Trust me, I have looked into this extensively. If you need 4 outputs (which I presume you do), then these are your USB 2.0 options, with approx UK prices:

NI's Audio Kontrol 1 - £190.00
Edirol UA101 - £290.00
Marian Ucon CX - £400.00
MOTO 828MKII USB - £450.00

Of course, the other option is to hang around for the new audio 8 DJ that NI have announced. Would be ideal, especially as it allows you the option to move onto vinyl/CD control of your decks if you decide to do that in the future.

http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?audio8dj_us

But I have to ask, if it's just for Traktor, why do you find it neccessary to upgrade to USB 2 anyway? The USB 1.1 products should meet your needs. It only seems to become relevant if, like me, you need to work with high quality audio files (for production).

 

Sean,
I think if you read the posts from people having difficulties you'll probably see that most, if not all are using the AK1 with a laptop. Laptops and USB 2.0 are oftentimes a challenge to set up and configure correctly because of power saving settings, USB power requirements and onboard sound device conflicts. Since it appears you will use the AK1 in a desktop setup you should have no problems.

 

what a load of bollocks.

If you have a desktop and are considering an AK1 (or any USB interface) then you want shooting!!!

 

Now that doesn't sound like a particulary friendly thing to say. You may find this surprising but there are those of us who experience totally trouble-free recording/playback with USB 2.0 devices. The key is to know how to configure your PC accordingly.

 

That post came accross ruder than I intended it to, apologies.

The point I failed to make is that the problems with laptop audio aren't particular to USB interfaces. There are loads of people having problems with firewire interfaces too for example and there is a poster on this forum who has discovered there is a some BIOS problem with the fan control on some Toshiba laptops that affects audio output regardless of the interface - even with onboard sound.

Of course it is possible to have a trouble free set up with a USB interface, but this can also rely on factors beyond the user's control.

Anyway, the problems people are having with the AK1 are nothing to do with the fact that it is being used with a laptop. NI have acknowledged there is a bug in the firmware.

I can still think of no good reason for choosing a USB interface if it is solely going to be used on a desktop computer. You have a greater risk of some sort of incompatibility, IRQ sharing, increased latency etc. PCI cards tend to be cheaper and have been around so long that the drivers are rock solid now.

Your advice was bad.

 

Bad advice? I guess everyone's entitled to their opinion. Are you an owner and user of an AK1, or are you basing your blanket pronouncements on what you've read and heard? If so I believe the info you're using is woefully out of date. If someone doesn't need a lot of I/O channels, a USB solution on the desktop is not only more than viable, it is equal to or more likely, LESS expensive than a PCI product with similar specs. Perhaps you haven't noticed that the product trend today is the decline of PCI cards and the surge of portable solutions in USB or FW interfaces. In fact, on the low price tier, USB 2.0 holds a significant edge over FW interfaces simply because they are less costly to manufacture- mostly due to the per-unit license fee one has to pay to Yamaha (for use of MLAN).

The driver architecture is not as untested as you imply. USB 2.0 has been in the market four years now and the vast majority of performance related problems (as noted for AK-1)are tied to laptop- not desktop PC applications. However I will grant that PCI still holds the edge in multi-I/O, heavy-use workstation applications- especially when one is recording at the highest sample rates available. That said, for someone shopping for a simple, 2-channel solution (and the original poster was obviously here looking for that) I would not hesitate to recommend they look at the AK1 or similar product.

 

You can read this forum and see that I am currently considering purchasing an AK1. I don't have one at the moment.

What info is out of date? What I'm referring to is the FACT that NI have admitted there is a bug in the firmware on the AK1. The main probem being reported will therefore be present regardless of whether you use the AK1 with a laptop or desktop.

You said that people are having issues because they are using laptops and it would be OK with a desktop. This is not a matter for opinion, you are wrong. It is bad advice.

Again, completely wrong. Where are you getting this from???

eg:
EMU 0404 USB = £135.00
EMU 0404 PCI = £59.00

M-Audio Audiophile USB = £95.00
M-Audio Audiophile PCI = £50.00

Just two examples, but you only need to look at some online stores to see that PCI cards tend to be available cheaper. Plus with the comparisons I made, the USB cards mentioned are actually lower spec than their PCI counterparts. They are deficient in one pretty major way - you can't record and playback simultaneoulsy at high quality settings. That makes them in fact completely useless for me and a lot of other people I know who like to work with 24bit 88.2khz audio in their projects. The reason for this is that the products only use USB 1.1 and the connection is not fast enough to stream lots of data in both directions.

Which brings me to your next point:

You would be hard pushed to find a USB 2 card that is more cost effective than firewire. There just aren't that many around. For example, if you want a unit that gives you 4 outputs, the cheapest available is the AK1. The next option you have is the new edirol interface at about £300.00. After that you are looking at the motu 828 USB which is about £450.00.

Firewire on the other hand... there are about 8 or 9 options that would do the job for less than £250.00. Starting with an M-Audio at £130.00 (60 quid cheaper than the AK1).

I know that audio via firewire came originally from yamaha's research and development into mLAN, but it is news to me that manufacturers have to pay Yamaha a commission on any Firewire audio interface they sell. Are you sure about that? Do you have a link?

USB 2.0 has been around for years yes, USB 2.0 audio interaces however have not. There are only about 8 and if we were having this conversation a couple of months ago, it would have been less than half that amount. M-Audio still don't make any USB 2 interfaces. Emu and Edirol and Tascam just brought their first ones out. (the Emu & Tascam ones are pretty unambitious in terms of i/o too). The AK1 has only been around for a few months. The oldest USB 2 interface I am aware of (without looking for obscure makes) is the MOTU which is just over a year old I think; I'm sure it's a nice unit but not exactly cheap!

So yes, I maintain that USB 2.0 drivers are relatively untested on the whole.

There is definitely more potentional for audio problems with a laptop system, but the main problem being discussed with the AK1 at the moment is nothing to do with this. It is a fault with the firmware. You should not be advising someone that it will be OK if he runs it on a desktop.

Well, presuming you are right and Sean is using a desktop computer, I would seriously hesitate to recommend a unit with an acknowledged fault to him when there are tried and tested options which are less than half the price. I suspect however that he wants something that he can take out with him as well, in which case it is a choice between taking a gamble on NI fixing the AK1's firmware, opting for a USB 1.1 device, or spending a lot more money on the Edirol or MOTU USB 2 boxes.

(That is, presuming that Firewire is ruled out already).

 

lol

I just read Sean's signature. He uses a Dell XPS laptop. You were completely wrong from the off MisterH when you said he uses a desktop!!

 

Sean

Have you made a decision yet? ....I'm shopping for a new soundcard at the moment as well.

I actually ordered a Fast Track Pro a couple of days ago, but as it looks like it's USB1, I think I'll be returning it as soon as it arrives.

I'm slightly concerned that the AK1 doesn't have a searate power supply input, .....is it totally happy on bus power, or has anybody had to revert to a powered hub?

I'm looking for balanced outputs & a mic input, plus I can look at firewire options as well as I'm on a Mac with a powered F/W port.

Has anybody got any experience with Echo's new cards? Either the AudioFire 2 or AudioFire 4.

 

What's wrong with the FW Audiophile you have? Is there a reason you need to buy another?

 

Yeah I just bought the Fast Track Pro.

 

The Audiophile's fine, but because I DJ for a living (not full time anymore, but still hold down a regular weekly night & some guest stuff) I like to have a back up card as well.

My previous lappy was a powerbook, & my other soundcard for that was an Echo Indigo DJ. That won't work with my new MacBook (no PC card slot), so that means I'm shopping for another card.

One venue I occasionally play at has it's own sound system with a pair of XLR inputs out in the bar area. So I'm thinking of keeping it simple, with Just a MacBook / FaderFox Midi Controller / soundcard with balanced outputs straight in to the XLR inputs. As I'm now getting low latency figures, I reckon I can also put a mic in to the soundcard & route that through a mixer channel on Traktor as well. ....hence the need for balanced outputs & a mic input (which the Audiophile doesn't have).

If this works, it will be a fantastically compact system. The venue in question has a house sound system behind the bar, so I can just leave a back up CD playing on that, & run & fade it up if I get any computer problems.

 

How are you getting on with that Sean? I think I may buy one. Not ideal because it is only USB 1.1 but still, hopefully reliable.

 

I just purchased Traktor 3. I'm asking anyone out there to recommend a great working audio interface (sound card) for my Macbook? I'm professional DJ in Las Vegas and I didn't want to go Rane Serato. One, because I don't need to scratch...and two, I enjoy what Traktor has to offer over the competion. I can't wait until April for the AK1 replacement. Thanks alot!!