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RE: Traktor Scratch problems with Denon DN-x1600 and Stanton T92

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR PRO / TRAKTOR SCRATCH PRO' started by jason_999, Jul 7, 2014.

  1. jason_999

    jason_999 Member

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    Hello,
    I having recently just upgraded to Traktor Scratch Pro 2.6.8 (R382), and started using DVS.
    My setup consists of a Denon DNX-1600 and 2 Stanton T92 turntables.
    I wont get into all the Input/Output Routing just yet, because initially everything works, Traktor Deck A/B Scratch Mode, Internal Playback Mode, Deck C/d Remix Decks Mode, Vinyl Analog directly into the Mixer etc....
    When i start the first track (on either Deck A or B), i see Traktor Calibrates the DVS as a Mk2 Vinyl and the scope displays a circle with a diagonal line through it.
    It seems to be about 10 minutes into using the DVS, that Traktor goes a little crazy and starts complaining about the DVS Signal/Strength.
    I start seeing warning messages on the Deck, like weak or low input, check needle, and then finally it goes to Unknown Medium Calib Failed.
    I have bought and used the Stanton Stylus and Vinyl cleaning kit and used them both, has not helped.
    When i switch the Mixer over to take a regular vinyl as an Input it plays fine.

    > How important are the RCA Cables, do they have to be really high quality, shielded etc?
    > Is it possible even though regular records play fine, i still may need to replace my cartridge/stylus? i bought the turntables used, and looks like they still have the originals on them.
    >I see on the Traktor Calibration Box on the bottom right corner there is a Stereo Input Meter, which on my screen have very low levels, maybe 1/8th of the total meter gets lite up, how high should they be?
    >How much impact does the Turntable Arm Weight and AntiSkip have on the DVS process?

    Thanks in advance,
    Jason
     
  2. Irv_Tf

    Irv_Tf NI Product Owner

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    How important are RCA cables? Very important but, they don't need to be fancy. The just have to work and ideally not be over 6ft for a turntable. Have you tried cleaning the contacts on your head shells and tonearm with a q-tip and alcohol? Try that first. You also asked about needles and each needle has it's own preferred tracking force(weight). If you are using 44-7s or most Ortofons the tracking force is about 3grams. Clean your needles, heashells, tonearm and take it from there.
     
  3. Irv_Tf

    Irv_Tf NI Product Owner

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    And before i forget do not use keylock!!!
     
  4. jason_999

    jason_999 Member

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    thank you, i will try that tonight.
     
  5. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod

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    26,792
    that is a very strange advise. you can use key lock with turntables as well. it is totally up to personal taste if you use it or not.

    anyways: how do the calibration circles look like? and yes: the timecode meters should be fully lit. this could be the root for your issues. double-check your wiring. are the turntables on phono output? i remember that some stantons could switch that on the turntable itself.
     
  6. jason_999

    jason_999 Member

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    Well i tried a few things last night.

    1. I replaced my USB Hub with a Powered USB Hub
    2. I turned OFF the Traktor KeyLock for Deck A&B

    The problem seemed to go away, but i do want to use the KeyLock feature.
    Once i turned the KeyLock back on the problem started again.
    I went into the Preferences and changed the KeyLock to the ECO mode.
    After a restarting Traktor, the problem seemed to go away, but i only had time to test for 10minutes.

    Thats the strange thing, everything always works in the beginning, Calibration looks good, 2 circles with a diagonal line, it recognizes the Vinyl as Mk2, the Orange Strength bar is full, but the Input Levels for the Left & Right channels are very low, almost not visible. then after 10 or 125 minutes its like it gets confused and starts dropping errors, to the point were it wont even reclibrate.

    I do have my turntables connected to the Denon Mixer Phone Inputs, with the Phono Button selected on the Channel, and yes the Stanton does have a Phono/Line Switch on the back of the TT, and i do have it set to PHONO.

    I did read about how to increase the Output Level on the Denon Channels, i am going to try that tonight.
    As well i will clean the tone arm/headshell contact.
    I will probably go and buy a new set of RCA cables as well, even though i dont think they are the problem, at least it would eliminate it.

    It is starting to look like a either Low Input Levels or KeyLock that is causing me grief.

    Thanks again for the help.
     
  7. Irv_Tf

    Irv_Tf NI Product Owner

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    When I said keylock I meant on the turntables only. Traktor itself has keylock and that works just fine
     
  8. jason_999

    jason_999 Member

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    ok, i will try that tonight. i can see how that might mess up the Time Code Signal.
    Thanks!
     
  9. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod

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    26,792
    ah ok. lol.
     
  10. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod

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    26,792
    if you can, record a video or make some photos/screenshots of the whole cabling and preferences.
     
  11. jason_999

    jason_999 Member

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    last night i verified the the KeyLock on the Turntables was off.
    i changed the Traktor KeyLock setting back to FastComputer from the ECO mode.
    I changed the Mixer USB Output Level from 0 to 12db, and now the Left/Right Input Meter on the Scope Screen looks much stronger.
    i did play for almost an hour before i had a problem, although this time i was able to just recalibrate and continue on. usually i have to shut Traktor right down.
    the funny thing is when this happens, both decks get the problem at almost the same time, seconds a part.
    I am going to order a new set of RCA Cables, found some good quality 1.5FT ones.
    heading to the cottage so might not have a chance to take screen pics of all my settings.
    i still think i might have to get a new cartridge/stylus, because when i look at it when its playing, the cartridge is almost touching the vinyl, like 1mm clearance. these are my first turntables so i really have no idea how much clearance you would have with a new stylus.
    anyway will update in a few days, but based on last night it ran much better.
     
  12. jason_999

    jason_999 Member

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    was on last night for about 45minutes with no problems.
    the only significant changes i made at this point was the Powered USB Hub & increasing the Mixers Channel output Level up to 12db.
    Thank you all again for your help, it was much appreciated.
    Jason
     
  13. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod

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    26,792
    good to hear. the low input in the beginning could definitely have made a difference. however - if BOTH turntables at the same moment get a problem, i'd think in the computer direction, like, a service (antivir? wlan? bluetooth?) starting and consuming suddenly much ram/cpu, or something like this. what computer do you have and how's latency etc.?

    also, have you checked the tuning tipps from the NI website? it's about optimizing your computer. i'd give it a go.
     
  14. jason_999

    jason_999 Member

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    hey DJ FreshFluke,
    i am definitely leaning in the Computer/Software direction. do you have the link to the NI Tuning Tipps thread, i searched but could not find it, assumed it would be in a FAQ. found some Latency Checking software on another thread, going to check that out later tonight as well.

    thanks in advance,
    jason
     
  15. jason_999

    jason_999 Member

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    I think I have found the cause of my Traktor Scratch problem, and am slightly embarrassed.

    The last few times the Calibration/Signal Quality has started to slip, I have inspected the needle and found some a small hair(s)

    I quickly use the Stanton Stylus brush to remove the debris, re-calibrate the deck, and so far (couple hours of playing) has always seemed to resolve the problem. another few hours and i will be confident that is the cause.

    I still think there may be a bit of a software bug because once one deck starts going, the other follows suit, but i have to test that as the last few times i have checked the needle once the cirle on the scope platter starts to deform.

    I had cleaned the stylus before and the digital vinyl is keep clean to, but we have 2 cats and it seems like the vinyl it is a damn magnet for the hair.

    This problem had re-occured once only 5/20 minutes after i had previously wiped the debris off the stylus and vinyl.

    It seems to happen more on my right turntable, I assume because it looks like the Stylus is worn down much more, the cartridge almost touches the vinyl, so I think it catches the debris much easier and causes me problems.

    I am happy this is starting to not look like a software issue, but will probably still have to buy new Stylus/Cartridges.
    anyway thanks everyone for your help, i really appreciate it.
    jason
     
  16. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod

    Messages:
    26,792
  17. jason_999

    jason_999 Member

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    FreshFluke,
    Thank you very much!
    and i apologize for not getting you that info you asked for.
    jason
     
  18. jason_999

    jason_999 Member

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    hey
    i am still having these issues (timecode signal issues), seemed to become a lot less frequent, over a 1 hour set maybe nothing, but sometimes once or twice within 5 to 10 minutes.

    at this point i am just wondering is there ANYONE running a Denon DN-X1600 with control Vinyl with a recent version of Traktor 100% without these timecode issues.

    i have recently received a new laptop through work, a Lenovo running Windows 7 32bit Enterprise SP1, 8gb Ram, i5-4300u CPU at 1.90ghz.
    was really hoping that would resolve the issue but it did not. when i reloaded all the software i ended up loading Traktor 2.7.1. i was hoping it was just a 2.6.8 software bug or a bad install because whenever the time code issues start to happen (like channel missing, low input, unknown medium..calibration failed) the only way to resolve the issue is to actually close Traktor and re-open it. then it usually works perfectly, for awhile anyway. i do not have to reboot my denon mixer. the other thing worth pointing out again, is when one deck goes, the other follows within seconds.
    i am going to put together some screen prints, although i really doubt that's the issue since it does work for 99% of the time. its the fact that when it does happen i basically have to shutdown Traktor and re-open that just throws me right off especially when you got a good groove going.
    I also have went through most of the performance tuning tips for windows 7, and when i have the LatencyDpc monitor running when the issues occur, the bars are all still in the green (under 500), no spikes.
    i have done some scanning on the internet and have saw some other Denon DN-X1600 and Traktor issues without any really solid resolutions.

    i am wondering if i am going to have to buy an NI Audio 10 and just bypass the Denon Soundcard all together, which would be a real shame.

    PS:
    #1-when i set my traktor decks to internal playback and just use my X1 for transport control, everything works beautifully with the denon, no issues.
    #2-i think i did mention it earlier in this thread, but i have tried removing the headshell and cleaning the connections, replaced the headshell/cartridge//stylus with a Shure White Label's, and replaced the RCA Cables.

    Windows Tuning Tips, what i did and did not do.
    Keep in mind this is my work laptop, so i am alittle cautious to start messing with settings i dont really understand.
    1-Got latest asio driver and latest firmware on mixer (2.0)
    2-Tried moving the Latency setting up and down, timecode issues still occurred.
    3-Loaded Latency Mon and Latency DPC to try to identify problems, although i did not update any drivers, when traktor is running and i have Wifi off, ethernet disconnected etc, the latency is always in the green, and i let it run from the point i start traktor up so when an issue occurs i can flip back to Latency Monitor and see if something just spiked.
    4-To the best of my knowledge, deactivated the more obvious device drivers, Wifi, Bluetooth.
    4-Did not touch the Bios
    5-Did not touch the Chipset/Component Driver
    6-Applied all the Energy Options
    7-Did not touch the Graphics Card Tools
    8-Applied the Disable Power Saving Options on USB Ports
    9-Changed Desktop to Windows Classic
    10-Applied Processor Scheduling
     
  19. jason_999

    jason_999 Member

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    i also should have mentioned i did recently balance the tone arm on my stanton t92 turntables and then set the weight to 3.5g, also set the anti skate to 0.
     
  20. jason_999

    jason_999 Member

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    My Traktor Audio Settings and Input/Output Routing
     

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