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Reaktor 6 Lovers Unite! :-)

Discussion in 'REAKTOR' started by rachMiel, May 22, 2015.

  1. Rlondon777

    Rlondon777 NI Product Owner

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    111
    the potential of what Reaktor could be in 2015 is rediculously amazing.
    the lack of a real update in ten years is unfortunately more rediculously amazing.
     
  2. rachMiel

    rachMiel NI Product Owner

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    325
    Yes! I hadn't thought of that, but it would be great ... and good sound marketing also. The main reason I've been happily using Live these days is the quality of the Max for Live devices, the ease with which they are loaded into a Live project, and how well they work in Live.

    I don't know all that many music academics these days ... but the ones I do know consider Max to be the way to go for building modular stuff. Reaktor is missing the boat imo. When I tell these academics I am a Reaktor user, they kind of shake their heads as if to say ... why?
     
  3. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

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    27,760
    they are snobs. Max/MSP has always been seen as academic and Reaktor is seen as being connected to 'pop music'.

    sowari
     
  4. ZooTooK

    ZooTooK NI Product Owner

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    1,747
    Very good analyze! +1

    Browsing ensembles and snapshots locale and from UL from Reaktor/Komplete Kontrol/Maschine should be top priority. The sea of user created ensembles are well hidden in the UL. The average Komplete user need to get the user created content on their radar.
     
  5. colB

    colB NI Product Owner

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    3,544
    Hehe, some are snobs for sure, some are just plain ignorant!. I talked to a couple of uni lecturers three or four years ago (around the time I was working on convolution processing) about Max/MSP, they didn't even know what Reaktor was - name rang a bell, but no idea that it was a visual programming environment.
     
  6. ~Pd~

    ~Pd~ NI Product Owner

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    569
    Reaktor is barely a visual programming environment. If anything, NI needs to focus on programmability - the ability to use scripting languages, and not toy in house languages like KSP but something like Lua or JS or Python. Ideally, several options. Also the ability to program "externals" in an efficient language like C or C++. If NI wants Reaktor to be on par with Max in this department - and it's not clear that they do - they have to open up to the wider world of programming where people use langages and tools created elsewhere. And for the LOVE of GOD can we FINALLY get some kind of abstraction happening, a class / object sort of system so we don't have to edit every single instance of an identical macro 20 times in a complex ensemble?

    The idea of Reaktor for Maschine is tempting, and I've suggested this in the past, but for me one of the main strengths of Reaktor over Max is that Reaktor doesn't rely on a single host. It runs equally well (mostly) in anything that uses a standard plugin format. I wouldn't want to see Reaktor in Maschine stronger at the expense of Reaktor in Reaper, Live, Logic, Cubase etc.
     
  7. ~Pd~

    ~Pd~ NI Product Owner

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    569
    Yeah, absolutely. Every sampling module needs to have live sampling built in, with the ability to record right into a slot in the sample map and either save with the ensemble or in a directory configurable through a dialog.

    And will we ever get a fix for the grain cloud sampler bug that prevents playing at the correct selected location until all voices have been iterated through?

    Are you thinking mainly in terms of clocks in sequenced ensembles? I don't use the R5 factory ensembles much but IIRC they're still broken for host playback.

    It's good that they finally put OSC in the plugin, and addressed host automation. Those are good signs.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. sameer

    sameer NI Product Owner

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    294
    totally agree. Reaktor needs more attention , not that it is stagnant or lacking.. We would like to see this software go into the deep future!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. rachMiel

    rachMiel NI Product Owner

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    325
    Could be they're snobs. Could be the things users/pros have developed for Max are more suitable for academic use: audio/DSP assignments, experimentation, intellectual discovery, etc. Also, Max enables users to add text code to projects, which ties into academia.
     
  10. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    18,508
    Sorry but KSP is much more efficient than either of the three scripting languages you listed, for realtime usage. As such, it's definitely not a "toy". Sure, it has its limitations, but those limitations translate into extremely lean and efficient realtime outcome.
     
  11. colB

    colB NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    3,544
    Max/MSP originated in academia. As a result it is an integral part of the academic "body of knowledge". The result is that although Reaktor might be good as a musical tool, it is not as useful or convenient from an academic point of view.
     
  12. rachMiel

    rachMiel NI Product Owner

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    325
    I didn't know Max started in academia. Makes sense though, in terms of its current academic popularity. Also, and I might be projecting ... building in Max has a distinct academic feel to it (which might explain why I'm not all that fond of it).
     
  13. ~Pd~

    ~Pd~ NI Product Owner

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    569
    Yeah, I should have gone back and edited that post - that word is inflammatory. KSP is excellent for what it does and I'm not questioning its efficiency. I was addressing the scope of the language, and its "openness".

    I don't know if anyone's ever benchmarked KSP versus Lua but Lua is recognized for being extremely fast. It also has a JIT compiler.
     
  14. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    18,508
    Yes - MachFive 3 is using Lua with JIT compiler and it's definitely not as efficient as KSP.
     
  15. ~Pd~

    ~Pd~ NI Product Owner

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    569
    Interesting! Good to know. Maybe an in-house designed KSP type language would be better for on-note events. What I have in mind for scripting is more asynchronous sorts of things like generating table data, fetching things over the network, analyzing images into spectral data etc. that aren't time critical.
     
  16. rachMiel

    rachMiel NI Product Owner

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    325
    Update

    Well gang ... support for a Reaktor-community letter to NI stating our concerns about the fate of Reaktor has been lukewarm. A few people responded to this posting, and a few responded to the Facebook posting (25 likes). Not nearly enough to have the kind of clout needed to make NI take us all that seriously.

    I'll give it some more time, but at this point it doesn't look like the community-at-large is all that hungry for Reaktor 6. (Or perhaps they are hungry, but feel powerless. Or apathetic.)
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2015
  17. ZooTooK

    ZooTooK NI Product Owner

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    1,747
    I don't remember the exact wording on the FB posting you did but maybe you need to spell it out: LIKE THIS IF YOU WANT A PETITION TO NI. THE WAIT HAS BEEN LONG ENOUGH - GIVE US REAKTOR 6!
     
  18. rachMiel

    rachMiel NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    325
    Thanks, ZooTooK. :)

    How to frame something like this? It shouldn't feel fanatical, or it will probably turn people off. Otoh it shouldn't be so wishy-washy that it's easy to ignore.

    Clear and blunt sounds promising to me. Something like:

    Reaktor 5 is 10+ years old, and Reaktor 6 is still nowhere to be seen. If you want Native Instruments to commit to building Reaktor 6, please Like this to show your support! A strong and united Reaktor community will force NI to take notice.
     
  19. Chet Singer

    Chet Singer NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    804
    When I think about it, the biggest think I'd like to see in R6 is the ability to run instruments on iOS. Not develop, but run. That is, sell an iOS runtime for perhaps $20 (think Reaktor Player). Then give us builders the ability to lock our creations and we can start charging for them, heh.
     
  20. involvelemons

    involvelemons NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    112
    I really like what Sowari mentioned in terms of Reaktor potentially being like Max for Live but for Maschine. This could go in nasty directions of course, with additional layers of annoying bloatware and awkward implementation. But I really like the idea of Reaktor being an environment that can open-endedly serve as a liaison between hardware and software. After reading Nathan Fake talk about how he learned Max for Live to extend what he does with modular, I renewed my interest in modular software. I personally like the sound and the fiddly-ness of hardware, but I see real advantages to using things like Reaktor or Max to make a certain number of one's own devices instead of paying $150-450 to buy a module that just does software processing, but in a box.

    I prefer the sound of Reaktor creations over Max creations, but I prefer Max as a swiss army knife for solving DAW workaround problems or mangling midi data. I would love to see Reaktor as something that, for instance, lets me build custom scales or sequences in maschine (more fluidly than you can in the 5.x version), that you could use to set up a polyphonic version of multiple mono vsts in maschine (something I've been doing in ableton for a couple years now), send CV data from Maschine via a dc coupled interface (also something you can do in ableton), etc.

    Native could really make a profit off the modular resurgence a la Max for Cat's Oscillot or the Expert Sleepers' stuff (both very different types of tools but both very plugged into the eurorack synth scene). That seems to be a pretty profitable growth market.