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Reaktor 6 should replace Kore

Discussion in 'KORE' started by Funky D, Jun 10, 2011.

  1. Funky D

    Funky D Forum Member

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    71
    Imagine if Reaktor 6 had the ability to host plugins. Imagine if Reaktor 6 had tight integration with the Maschine controller. Imagine if Reaktor 6 had a browser and tagging system similar to Kore. And think of the additional possibilities with the ability to really go under the hood and tinker 'til your heart's content.

    I'm not well versed in Reaktor, but it amazes me what people do with it. I'm sad to see Kore go, but I saw it coming. NI shot themselves in the foot by making Kore too difficult to upgrade and manage. All of the synths should have been programmed with Kore in mind, not the other way around.

    I'm all for simplifying NI’s product line though. With simplification comes backward compatibility. Why not ditch Massive, FM8, and Absynth and program them directly into Reaktor? Make Reaktor to synths what Kontakt is to samplers? NI could discontinue the Scarbee packages tomorrow, but I'd still be able to load them forever as long as future versions of Kontakt retain an ounce of backward compatibility. I wish I could say the same for the other products in NI's lineup...
     
  2. dysamoria

    dysamoria NI Product Owner

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    213
    i can see the idea behind your post, but i think it's better as things were (with Kore) because the use of Kore to integrate the NI products allowed them each to be their own thing. NI eliminated three synths and then offered their sounds as samples in Kontakt 4. The thing is, aside from Akoustic Piano, the eliminated synths were NOT sample-based. The sample versions are no longer programmable or dynamic. FM8 is very much its own thing and it's CPU friendly and quite well developed. It doesn't need much beyond maintenance to keep it up-to-date with DAWs and OSes. Why complicate things by wrapping it into another product? Massive has a very well developed feature-set as well and the same thing there (why complicate matters by trying to wrap it into Reaktor?). Reaktor is super powerful but it's its own world. It's not a host and shouldn't be one. The ideas you've suggested would be a LOT of engineering and would complicate Reaktor unnecessarily.

    Kore made sense, but the execution sucked. Dumping it was the wrong way.
     
  3. TabSel

    TabSel NI Product Owner

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    743
    Maintain your products. Simple as that.
    If you don't, it renders your customers work useless. This is true more so with Kore, as it involved a lot of time and work. But it is fun and Users DID just that themselves. NI should have provided an online ksd database for users to share, for third parties to sell, instead of integrated engines and tagging and mapping each and every preset of every integrated engine themselves, really wasting ressources.

    The idea of Reaktor hosting vsts and providing a taggable database for snapshots, ensembles etc. really attracts me. You could even write a ksd to reaktor ensemble converter. The user lacks a really simple and fun GUI, but even this could Be build with Reaktor.
     
  4. dysamoria

    dysamoria NI Product Owner

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    213
    i don't see Reaktor acquiring a KSD-like database any time soon, and even if so, that would only support NI-developed Ensembles... oh wait... they did do this... it's called Kore.
     
  5. TabSel

    TabSel NI Product Owner

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    743
    I didnt meant rebuilding synth As ensembles in reaktor. No, keep the synths As Single vsts and maintaine them!
    And implement a vst hosting Module in Reaktor, with ins and Outs like any other module. You could rebuild any Kore sound with Reaktor, so could Write a converter, too.

    But meh... I am already supporting NI again with ideas, I'm too nice...
     
  6. Funky D

    Funky D Forum Member

    Messages:
    71
    I wasn't really suggesting the current instruments be completely rebuilt in Reaktor, rather NI create synth packs for Reaktor as they create sample packs for Kontakt (and now FX packs for guitar rig). Convert future versions of Massive/Absynth/FM8 into synth packs. A synth pack could probably have less overhead than a full-blown VSTi version. Interfaces would be the same, but they'd be loaded via Reaktor. And if all patches were compatible, we could have a patch management system similar to Kore. So, open Reaktor, search for a distorted lead, double-click on a Massive patch, and the Massive synth pack opens up.

    The synth packs could just exist as modules behind the scenes. VSTi's could be loaded via modules as well, with customizable inputs, outputs, and controller data. It wouldn't make Reaktor any more complicated than it already is, especially if new instruments were created with accessible interfaces to get to the new features. Someone could even recreate a Kore-like interface.

    Kore is dead. And I think Reaktor would be a better replacement than Maschine. Maschine is the one instrument I'm worried about NI over-complicating.
     
  7. BIF

    BIF NI Product Owner

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    1,081
    This whole thread made me laugh. And I really needed a laugh this week. :(
     
  8. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

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    27,766
    to be honest, i really don't want NI to spend time on making Reaktor 6 a Kore replacement.

    and i don't want Reaktor to host plugins.

    sowari
     
  9. taoyoyo

    taoyoyo NI Product Owner

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    1,603
    Agree with Sowari... Reaktor is just fine doing what it already does.
     
  10. TabSel

    TabSel NI Product Owner

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    743
    oh my god, NO. Definately not!

    But a vsthosting module would be quite nice.

    May I ask why you don't want that?
     
  11. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

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    27,766
    because it would probably require a complete rewrite of the code, and the time that would take would be too long, and would detract from other improvements.

    my ideal future for Reaktor would be to take on some of the Drag n Drop attributes from Guitar Rig. think of Reaktor as a Synth, Sampler, Effects Rig where it would be possible to Drag n Drop Oscillators, Filters Envelopes etc, etc and have them connect up, and where it would be easy to assign Modulators to all the various parameters.

    sowari
     
  12. TabSel

    TabSel NI Product Owner

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    743
    an tag all your work in a database linkable to a global database.

    Sure, a lot could be done. I really hope they don't lose their vision further. REALLY. I am already pissed by even think about this possibilty...

    But a code rewrite is more or less due, I mean, how old is it now. Multiproc, parallel computing gains momentum. So please, don't forget a VSThost-Module NI!

    (and deactivate it for sowari)
     
  13. Marcel#

    Marcel# Forum Member

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    44
    +1 for the idea of a vst module
     
  14. dysamoria

    dysamoria NI Product Owner

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    213
    this thread belongs in the Reaktor forum now ;-)

    I'm all for a drag-&-drop GUI on top (an abstraction layer for ease of casual use).
     
  15. BIF

    BIF NI Product Owner

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    1,081
    I oppose adding more code to Reaktor. It would make it more cumbersome for NI to maintain and might make Reaktor a candidate for future termination due to high cost of maintenance.

    For that reason, I now oppose major enhancements to Battery, Kontakt, FM8, Guitar Rig, and just about every other NI instrument.

    Yes, management decisions have unexpected consequences.
     
  16. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    27,766
    i would guess that Reaktor had an extensive code re-write for 5.5, and quite afew more extensive changes for 5.6 and the future update 5.6.1

    to be honest VST hosting in Reaktor was a feature request before Kore had been thought about.

    sowari
     
  17. arachnaut

    arachnaut NI Product Owner

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    2,964
    This is a BAD idea because Reaktor is already complex enough and if it became too hard to maintain it could be dropped like Kore.
     
  18. dysamoria

    dysamoria NI Product Owner

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    213
    welcome to fear, uncertainty & doubt. nothing NI says to users about existing products can be trusted by those of us in this state...
     
  19. BIF

    BIF NI Product Owner

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    1,081
    Yes, that's called "FUD".

    Say, are any NI products REWIRE capable? This could be a possible path to explore.
     
  20. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

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    27,766
    no, and NI have stated quite a few times that they will not be incorporating Rewire.

    sowari