Reaktor Builders Macros - modulators

Discussion in 'Building With Reaktor' started by arachnaut, Aug 7, 2010.

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  1. arachnaut

    arachnaut NI Product Owner

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    I'd like to take this time to describe what should be in this package (or packages if we get many more macros).

    Firstly they must be modulators and by that I mean something that changes audio or events according to some scheme.

    A simple modulator is an LFO; a little more complex would be an envelope generator. The simplest would be a knob.

    Modulators are not usually used as an audio signal, so they can remain completely in the event rate timing mode. But only a few modules actually generate the events: the LFO, Event Smoother, Slow Random and A to E macros are the main ones.

    Usually a modulator will run in one of these time rates:

    a) Very low frequency - from .1 Hz to 1 Hz approximately. This range is typically used to vary the sound spectrum by slowly changing filter cutoffs and stuff like that

    b) low frequency - 1 to 10 Hz. This is in the range of human gestures and generates vibrato, tremolo, etc.

    c) Higher than 10 Hz - this begins to become an audio signal somewhere in this range and is used to generate extreme effects.

    One could use a control shaper to generate a knob taper that covers that range. For example, set the knob range from 0 to 1 and the 4 point shaper to range from 0 to 100. Make BP 1 be 1 make BP 2 be 10 and make BP 3 be 50 with these breakponts at 25 point steps. A knob like that would need a high resolution to access the levels with some precision.

    It would be rare for a modulator to change at 100 Hz so they should all be happy to operate an an event rate.

    So usually modulators will have an event output port, but frequently there is an audio output port as well to make it easy to connect different sources.

    One of the chief reasons for using a modulator is to increase the complexity of a simpler sound - to make it richer and more expressive.

    It is not uncommon that one attaches modulator knobs to external stuff via MIDI Learn.

    I don't think we want to attach knobs ourselves to MIDI events because that information is hidden inside the property page and we don't know what MIDI capabilities a user has. I frequently use mod wheels and foot controllers, others may use rotary knobs - whatever.

    Since modulators are primarily connected to oscillators and filters and modulate one note - they must be polyphonic. They may have a gate to synchronize to a note on or some clock if they are periodic.

    We have set as a standard that all the audio and event ranges are between 1 and -1. Many modulators are bipolar (-1..+1), like LFOs; and many are monopolar (0..1) like ADSR modules. It is quite simple to set up a few math modules to convert ranges and scale - it is a linear operation - it can all be done with an a*x+b macro. In fact Reaktor has a single module that does that (X+). For example, to go from (-1,1) to (0,1) use .5*x+1; the reverse, to go from (0,1) to (-1,1) use 2*x-1.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2010
  2. Klinke

    Klinke Account Suspended

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    it was just a magic merge-stop-posting. :)

    Here is the Limelite recordable XY. It is different from all i saw in U/L or else.
    I made it to send CC-messages to other VST-plug-ins, but it also can be wired up.
    It is also for KP3 with a "touch"-button for mapping. I'm proud it works alright..
    Unipolar(0->1), like most i have.(for midi-learn)
    Atm there's 5.5 on all of my machines.
    I can upload to U/L if wanted.
     

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  3. arachnaut

    arachnaut NI Product Owner

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    Hi Klinke,

    (what is your name?)

    Since this seems to be oriented to drums (the swing is obvious) perhaps it is better as a U/L upload.

    As far as possible we would like our RB macros to be generic.

    If you think it's more general, by all means we will consider it.
     
  4. arachnaut

    arachnaut NI Product Owner

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    Life is tough enough without having to resort to software idiosyncrasies. Like the dummy zip file. Why should I have to think about what posting occurs before this one? If some one posts just as I do this post may follow, or else it merges. The dummy file is my safety belt, Do I need to count on it to make my point?

    Hi Klinke,

    Let me say that we are oriented to new beginners, or people who have built just a few things.

    We would like the RB Macros to be very general - applicable to just about any situation.

    If you have a drum application, you should upload it to the U/L.
     

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  5. arachnaut

    arachnaut NI Product Owner

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    I just sent a note to the web master about why I dislike the merge function:

    1) It is software bloat and adds to bugs
    2) It serves no useful purpose
    3) It make replies harder
     
  6. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

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    sorry, but i have to disagree here, in some situation you want a Mono Modulator - Green Matrix is an example.

    also Modulators can be used to modulate effects parameters. maybe there should be a separate Polyphonic and Monophonic Modulators ensemble?

    and can i ask why you are saying limit the entries to 5.1.5? this limits contributions for those who only have the Electronic Instruments collection since the 5.5 beta test.

    i don't think Modulators can be 100% "generic". and if i remember correctly the LimeLite XY is routed to the effects. i don't see why it shouldn't be included, if works and there are instruction as to how it should be used.

    sowari
     
  7. arachnaut

    arachnaut NI Product Owner

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    4,662
    OK, I'll grant Phil all his statements, we shouldn't be too restrictive or over-generalize.

    I would like all the modulators to be tested for polyphony but we can release them in a single voice package. Or separated by voice handling.

    But about 5.1.5 vs. 5.5. This we can debate on.

    I installed 5.5 and then uninstalled it, installed it again and uninstalled it. I did that to maintain my U/L uploads. It's not trivial.

    5.5 is BETA software - no doubt very stable, but still BETA.

    At the end of August it will expire, so I imagine we are very close to a release.

    What do others think about this?
    ---
    Allowing 5.5 beta allows us to consider the EI1 and 2 collection for possible candidates, that's a very good point.

    We are close to release - Komplete 7 is on sale Sept 1, right? 2 weeks from now.

    So I guess maybe I should upgrade to 5.5 again and allow others to make entries with it.

    So let it be, Reaktor 5.5 is allowed. I'll upgrade myself right now.
    ---
    Another thought occurred to me about modulators and not being too narrowly defined.

    There are any number of small macros that alter signals that may be considered modulators - Ramps Ctrl Rate is one obvious thing and some of the macros Phil made in the Controls of the modulator package. Even little bipoloar-to-monopolar and vice-versa macros can be included.

    Perhaps we can use these in the package and split them out with the set of macros.

    I'll be on the lookout and go through my macro collections for things like that.
     
  8. arachnaut

    arachnaut NI Product Owner

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    Maybe it's time to consider the final package in more detail.

    I'm perfectly happy with the simple demo that Phil made. I would like to use OMega for some future packages, but it isn't appropriate for this because it allows only 8 modulators in three banks. It's not a problem in OMega because so many of the parts have their own LFO's and ADSRs built in.

    Right now voicing is set to 1 and all macros are set to mono, I think.

    I'd like to be able to set all of them to POLY and have them pass unless there a good reason for them to be MONO.

    For the ones that have to be mono I can make a mono gate and a last voice pitch available.
     

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  9. Klinke

    Klinke Account Suspended

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    Yes it is.

    The swing knob is there, because i just merged the limelite clock with the XY.
    With the Kaoss-pad3 it is possible to tap rhythms and for that i thought swing could be fun...but maybe i cut it out for less confusion on the gui.

    It can run in sync with the Daw, or have it's own clock with different bpm settings. Together with length, speed, 1/2 time it has many possibilities..in sync if needed.

    ------------------
    arachnaut:
    "Even little bipoloar-to-monopolar and vice-versa macros can be included."<--great, i want that.

    ------------------

    Maybe put a date and time under the split-line, when you want to make a double-post, which will be merged.
    Then it has better optical split and orientation-layout, but no dummy-attachment.

    -----------------

    bipolar: When i modulate the panning left/right and front/back of e.g. Absynth with an YX, it has to be unipolar, because it is for midi-learn and there the pan-middle is at 0.5(lowest:0, highest:1)...then unipolar source modulates a bipolar target.
    And i am happily letting the audio spin around my head;)
    (Til' now i have nothing uploaded to U/L )

    -----------------

    To 5.5: It will be shipped on Sept. 1st as latest date. Personally i think the Komplete7 DVDs are already in production to hold the date. Means the version we have now is the release candidate and maybe updated later.
    (Kore2 is not part of K7 and the update/R5.5-compatibility will come Sept.1st, or soon after the release of K7)

    Jochen Frehse
     
  10. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

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    jim, i need to review most of the Modulators that i uploaded that are included in your Modulators.zip. i notice that all of them are now 100% Mono. this was not the case in their original Ensembles.

    to clarify, i feel that we should respect the original builders. i'll give an example, there are 2 Siegmar Kreie Envelopes from Gabi, one of them - i think EG1 - is designed to emit a polyphonic signal, the other Envelope - EG2 - just one voice. Trapezoid is from S.I.A.C, it is a monophonic Synth, whereas many other of the Envelopes and LFOs are from Polyphonic Synths.

    having said that, it is not just a question of making all the Modules Polyphonic, so I will need to check with the original Ensembles.

    sowari
     
  11. arachnaut

    arachnaut NI Product Owner

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    Yes, Phil, that is my fault, and I agree that the original designer's goal should be paramount. Thank you for being so observant. I admire your memory about all the uploads to the U/L. I can't begin to recall all that stuff.

    I was trying, probably wrongly, to make the macros polyphonic and I ran into troubles, so I just made them all MONO for now.

    I think maybe I should retract the Modulators.zip and try again.

    If no one has done any work on the file I will re-do it, and be more careful. I don't think anyone has started yet.

    I'll wait a little and see what you all say.

    I think originally I thought this was going to be an easy thing, but nature has a way...

    Each package we have done has taken a lot of time and I think I was in a rush to get to the samplers.

    Sorry. These are trying times...

    Please keep me honest! I may appear to be a tyrant, but I am really quite a softy. And I want to do the best thing.

    That is what is great about this forum - I am an eccentric, sci-fi weirdo, who sees all electronic music as just a special effect - others have a more tempered approach.
    ---
    Aug 14 5:52 PM

    I have deleted the modulators.zip file that I asked you all to work on.

    Phil is right to question my decision to make them all monophonic for now in the attempt to make them all polyphonic later.

    If a knob is a modulator (and it is) it is still monophonic.

    So I suppose we should respect the original intent and leave the ones that are monophonic or polyphonic the way they are.

    My belief was that if we make what can be polyphonic that way, that it is for the better, because poly can be mono, but not always the latter.

    Now I am thinking of how to separate the monophonic entries from the polyphonic entries.

    As a background note - something is polyphonic if it is going to affect each note individually when played. By being polyphonic, one instance of the macro is made for every voice played and the gating and pitch applies to that note. It take a bit of CPU for each instance. When the thing is monophonic, all voices have been combined into a single audio stream and the modulator affects the whole shebang.

    Tomorrow I'll post a new starting package, more in line with the original author's intent.
     
  12. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

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    i can do some work on the Macros that i included in that collection tomorrow morning. today i have a few social commitments to honor ;)

    sowari
     
  13. gtodd

    gtodd Forum Member

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    Sorry I was out of town without internet access for a few days. I'm catching up with this thread. I think a re-read will help me:)

    I will take green if it hasn't been taken yet. I want to make sure I don't get in over my head and can still make a positive contribution.
     
  14. arachnaut

    arachnaut NI Product Owner

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    Todd, you can have the green, so John gets the magenta.

    But you'll have to wait until I get the package back into shape based on what Phil wrote. I am working on it now.

    I have a lot of ensembles to peruse for more stuff, so probably this package will run into at least two parts. I don't like to put more than about 16 or so macros per package. But these are fairly small so maybe we can squeeze a lot into it. If there is a large number, it's easy to drop them all into a stacked macro, so real estate is not an issue.
    ---
    I think it's better to use a different naming convention that I wrote earlier - that way makes the name too long to see on the macro header.

    Let's use the style "rb_mod_<name>_v1" not "rb_modulator..."

    It's important to have good conventions so that people can sort through a large set of macros and find what they want.
     
  15. arachnaut

    arachnaut NI Product Owner

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    Here is the new modulators package. Same colors, but more as Phil made it.

    I made a few internal control macros visible. They can also be included as modulators.

    I did a little bit of documentation and cleanup, but left things mostly as they were.

    Most of the macros will need better names.
     

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  16. arachnaut

    arachnaut NI Product Owner

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    To Todd and John - in the past we just submitted the new macro that was cleaned-up to this forum. From then on, further changes bump the rev number.

    As we go alone, I'll integrate these macros back into the package and resubmit it, again with a bump in the revision number. I'll also take responsibility for the Controls and comments in it.

    We also welcome casual users to chime in with comments and suggestions (and help!)
     
  17. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

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    Hi Jim thanks for doing some work yesterday.

    i have added a few notes and made some alterations and added the Green Matrix LFOs.

    i have incorporated the gating systems in with the 2 Keie Envelope Generators as I am not sure all users would realize they are important to make them work.

    with my notes, i have tried to clarify, how the Modulators were used in their original context, and how they might therefore be used in new situations.

    sowari
     

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  18. arachnaut

    arachnaut NI Product Owner

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    To Todd and John, I'll do the Green Matrix and CV_Gen macros so that you two have an even work load.

    Here are some considerations as I look over these:

    The headers should have:
    Author:
    Submitter/date:
    Comments:

    If the submitter/date missing, put sowari/Aug 15,2010 as the date, since he did these. I think the rest are OK.

    All the names need to change to the format as in the Controls macros that I changed.

    They should all start with 'rb_mod_'

    If they are monophonic, use 'rb_mod_mono_', otherwise poly is assumed.

    Panel decorations should be removed (like the lamp in Trapezoid).

    The knob and panel element sizes are all OK as they are.

    A lot of panel documentation (Info tips from properties) need to be done, but in most cases I think it's not a problem to figure out.

    Any questions, just ask.

    This week I will be looking through a bunch of things and may come up with a few more.
     
  19. arachnaut

    arachnaut NI Product Owner

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    This is a bit off-topic, but I think it's important.
    Recently there was discussion of legato handling and Ernest Meyer posted a very nice solution to handling pitch and gating.

    The thread is here:
    https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99477

    I'll copy the ensemble to here for convenience.

    This is a very nice little demo and it covers a very difficult area of Reaktor - the gate/pitch/voice handling.

    Should we include this example?

    We don't have any rb macros in this area, and the evaluator's pitch/gate handling in other packages is from the JWH 3X synth.

    If we decide to include it, I'd like to keep the ensemble as-is along with a PDF of the thread and a brief intro note as to why we include it. In other words, it sort-of a stuffing in whole with no adaptation really needed, maybe a 'gate tutorial'.
     

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  20. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

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    i had triggering issues with Ernest Meyer's solution with a Sampler that i am building. i want it to have Unison as well as Mono and Polyphonic and of course Legato, but there were triggering problems with Ernest's Macro.

    for me the best Macro i have found is the one in FM4. i have done a mod with a Stephan V. Macro because i really like his detune - just seems to be nicer than the FM4 one - and his Stereo Spread. i will upload something in the next few days.

    sowari
     
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