Remapping tremolo/wah to something else than mod wheel?

Hi!

I'm having serious issues with the mod wheel hard wired to tremolo control. Why can't it be reassigned to some other CC like all the other parameters?

I have 5 software in instruments loaded in my live rack and I'm currently using mod wheel for B4 to control the rotary. Now when I switch to the Elektrik Piano with a preset loaded, it has also read the mod wheel commands I sent to the B4 and now has some totally different tremolo than it used to.

This isn't the worst problem, but the serious problem comes when there's some preset with WAH loaded and wired to the mod wheel. When I touch the mod wheel, the wah goes on and it's not possible to put it off from the mod wheel anymore since modwheel only puts it to the setting "1".

This is understandable behaviour, but very unwanted, when I want to keep the wah completely off. Also, it's not possible to map the mod tremolo to Macro Knob in Ableton Live because it doesn't have a control channel visible to the host.

Isn't there any chance to remap the tremolo and wah to something else? Also when using wah, how can I have my left hand free for using wah when playing with two hands? Wah is ment to be used with an expression pedal.

 

*bump*... is there any way?

 

Yes I think so - EP presets can be edited/created in Kontakt2 and re-used in EP, I'm in the middle of remapping all the samples in a couple of the new 'Authentic' presets, cause I still wasn't happy with them even after the last mini-update. And I'm not happy with the CC numbers either, I know K2 mapping of CC and Host Automation will carry back into EP (it now uses the K2 engine), but the existing presets use scripting to handle the GUI and the CC detection is embedded in there somewhere as far as I can see. I'll get round to looking into changing them at some stage hopefully, but I haven't really looked at K2 scripting yet. You might be able to get a proficient scripter on the Kontakt forum who's got EP as well to make a couple of quick changes and post an altered preset. But I think the change would have to be made for every single preset/instrument you might want to use. I'll post my presets at some stage if people are interested, assuming I don't make a hash of them.

 

Thanks for the info!

It would be a good start if someone changed the authentic presets so that EP would show the tremolo/wah control to the host too and it would be controllable by automation (I know it's controllable by recording modwheel data but I want EP to show the tremolo/wah parameter in the plugin itself when it's added to the host - it doesn't currently).

It's ok if it's mapped to the mod wheel as long as it's controllable from the host and you can see it as a physical parameter but it currently isn't. At least in Ableton Live it doesn't show, there are only 8 parameters visible from the plugin and those are every other parameter but not tremolo/wah.

Is there anyone from the NI team here who could comment this or share some ideas?

 

I'm just going to have a quick look at a preset in K2 and see if I can assign a HA# to the tremelo depth and carry it back to EP ... hold your horses (but not your breath, it'll take me 10 minutes or so ! )

 

Awesome!

 

Ok, some info, but if you're still there, some info first - we are talking EP 1.5, yes ?

 

To explain, this won't apply to EP pre 1.5 I don't think.

 

Yes, I have 1.5.

 

Well I'll continue, we may end up cross posting ...

I'd actually forgotten that I'd already looked at this, but EP 1.5 *is* actually publishing HA numbers for the controls, tremelo depth is #000; BUT, DP, which I mostly use, isn't capturing the EP GUI movements, due I think to a change in the VST standard that MOTU haven't caught up with yet. So I find I can 'draw' HA dtat in DP and EP will respond, but I can't record from he GUI. BUT, again, I think I'd found that SX3, and I'd assume Cubase 4, *was* recording the GUI correctly. Now what this means for you in Live I'm not really sure; I've got the Live6 demo floating around somewhere, but I'm not really familiar with it ...

 

Can't find my Live6 demo; are you saying that HA parameter #000 definitely isn't showing for EP 1.5 in Live ? And/or, are you on the latest version of Live, or possibly an older one ?

 

Ok now I must admit that I misread the parameters.

I didn't see that in Authentic instruments, they actually mapped the amount of tremolo/wah to the first knob in the GUI. This wasn't in the 1.0 presets.

Soo, I can actually control what I wanted with the #000 so there's no problem! But this isn't in the 1.0 presets, since you can't find the tremolo/wah amount in the GUI either and the HA's are mapped to the GUI knobs.

I'm sorry for the extra trouble: it seems I can do what I want as long as I use the authentic presets.

Thanks for your help, if it wasn't this conversation, I would've probably missed this new feature! Now I'm very happy since I can remap the wah/tremolo to my exp. pedal! Very cool!

 

I can't test it actually now, but does remapping #000 bypass modwheel after that so that modwheel has no longer effect?

 

I'm not sure where you're 'remapping', d'you mean in Live ? Mapping an incoming CC to a HA ? Don't think I can do that in DP, though I can remap CCs to different CCs (though try not to, it gets confusing with 5 controllers and endless VIs).

But, no, I don't think it would stop EP responding to CC#1.

HOWEVER, all this jogged me into having another look at the K2 script relating to the GUI (there's other stuff, some of it password protected, don't know why), and I ended up deciding that as far as I could see there was just one small 'case' paragraph relating to CC#1. The four knobs respond to CCs 20 thru 23, and this paragraph seems simply to do exactly the same as the one for CC#20. So I just chopped it out, saved the K2 'Instrument' (.nki), loaded it into EP, and "Ta-Daa", Mod Wheel now ignored!

I've attached a zip of the .nki in case you want to try it (It's the 'MK II Authentic Suitcase', slightly renamed, no other changes); but I won't be held responsible if your PC subsequently develops green spots and a bad cough, I'm not insured.

If you want to use it, you have to place it at least alongside the other EP 1.5 presets, but you can put it in a new folder at that level, which is what I've been doing with all my edits. At least this works on OSX, haven't tried it on XP yet.

I'm still ploughing through editing the sample mapping for a MK I and a MK II (including trying to get a good sounding velocity crossfade between samples, I was very surprised to find this not already in place - it may not be soo noticeable in average playing, but try sequencing 127 same notes up the velocities, and when the sample switches, especially to the hardest hit, it's like, WHOAH!

When I've finished I'll add at least a chorus, mapped to some new CCs, and I guess HAs, and possibly another eq for rolling off bass, though NI have already got 3 different eqs in the presets (all tiny tweaks), cause I decided I really didn't want to be loading a second preset just to get a chorus (though if the samples are already loaded/lined up, it doesn't take all that long).

But if people are interested in having the ModWheel removed from a lot of presets (and I know some others have made the same comments about it not being the best choice, especially when controlling several different VI and hardware units at the same time), then it might be worth while getting a discussion going to see what CC line up most people would like to end up with. It's a very quick change to make, and anyone with EP 1.5 and K2 (latest 'new engine' version) can do it. I've no objection to doing a few, not sure I want to wade through every single EP preset!

If you try the attached preset, let me know if it works for you ok.