Reset Pad sound WITHOUT resetting Channel Settings

I don't want to sound snotty, but honestly what Maschinebehaviour do you expect, when you reset (shift + erase) a sound slot/pad?
Delete the plugin and keep the channel settings? Why not the other way round - keep the plugin and reset the channel settings? This both doesn't make sense imho.
If you change a plugin or sample inside a sound slot via the browser the audio routing remains.
If you reset a sound slot - then, well, you reset or rather delete it.
And if you duplicate a sound slot/pad you duplicate all corresponding settings including the routings (as long as you duplicate within the same group).

A sound slot/pad is the plugin settings and the channel settings/routings. But an empty pad is an empty pad and nothing more!
It's like a track in your DAW you haven't inserted yet. And you would never complain about your DAW not remembering the routings of a track you recently deleted if you then insert a new one.

But wait - I said a sound slot is the plugin settings and the routings, but when I save it and reload it in another project the the routings are lost!?
This seems to be a annoying bug at first but against expectations this make a lot of sense. A fresh loaded sound or effect "knows" nothing about the environment where it's loaded in, besides the fact that there will be always a master bus. Is the original routing target still available? Or is the routing target used by another sound or effect? Consequently the channel settings are set to default when you load a new sound slot. This is always true on sound level.

On group level by contrast routings of a sound slot are saved as long as the routing target is located in the same group! In this manner it's possible to similarly use a group like abletons instrument- and effect racks which you can save and reload. Or using a group as a sort of semi modular environment.
BTW - I'm pretty sure that we'll see new type of Maschine plugins in future updates, which will us allow to modulate automation data in another way than auto write - like a lfo or envelope generator for example - but that's a different story.

No offence - just my 2cents.

 

@dj_67 While much of what you write is accurate and I agree that if you hard reset a Sound it's reasonable to assume that all settings will be reset, by similar logic that has a Sound defined as instrument/effects and channel settings, a saved Group, for instance, is actually 16 Sounds, Group level effects and channel settings PLUS any Patterns saved with that Group. And we can choose whether those saved Patterns are loaded with the Group, so why not allow us to choose whether channel settings are overwritten when loading? Further, why not allow an option to keep any effects on the Group level?

I see your analogies with DAW tracks, but many sounds/instruments cannot be loaded easily without loading the whole Sound as such (e.g., Maschine library Sounds and Sounds as part of a kit), so Sounds are essentially both the track and instrument and effects together, whereas a DAW track is just the container/channels. Although track templates exist, you don't typically load a track to load an instrument, which is what you're doing when you load Sounds in Maschine. Also, many users have standard templates with their preferred routings that simply loading a new Sound/Group can ruin.

I agree that Maschine can be simply used in other ways, basing it on what it can do, but these options to "lock" output settings and/or effects and generally have more flexibility over what gets loaded and what doesn't would benefit a lot of users, myself included (if you hadn't guessed ).


By the way, I'm not trying to be arsey here, just arguing a point.

 

@dj_67 I also agree with your points but essentially we just want a way for it to not reset our routing. Currently the duplicate and reset commands work on what I'd like to call a "pad" level, and not on a "sample" level. I'm not saying that it shouldn't, I'm just saying currently that is how its set up. For me, When I duplicate i'd much rather it duplicate the "sample" not the "pad". Same thing with adding a drum/sound group, I just want maschine to bring in the "samples", don't replace my pads.

I guess for me I view pads as channels, separate from the samples.

They could continue to keep it the way the way it is now, as you said the functions do exactly what they describe. But, a simple setting in the preferences to "hold routing" would help put the duplicate and reset commands on more of a "sample" level and not a on a "pad" level. (am I making sense? lol )

 

"@PooFox, I have similar feelings. I feel like 2.0 has made my experience using Maschine inside of a DAW even better and easier from previous versions, not worse. I really haven't seen what the fuss is about to be honest."

The thing is ,this is not an example of Maschine being used INSIDE of a DAW and has little to do with it apart from being an interesting approach. This is Maschine being used standalone with a daw also running standalone. This is a clever approach and I'm always happy that folks find great ways to work. However I was sold Maschine at the demo that Josh of NI did back in 2009 as a drum/sampling solution that would run as a vst. It worked great this way as a vst until Maschine 2 NI development has so screwed this up that the only foolproof way to use Maschine with a daw not is having both programs running side by side with a virtual connection. This uses more cpu even on a well speced computer. Over the years I've never used a virtual midi cable that didnt screw up eventually but I havent tried LoopBe . I'm not sure why I'd have to take a step backwwards at this point.

 

I do see your point, but like I said, I'm doing both: using Maschine in standalone to control Maschine plugins inside of a DAW. And it uses very little extra cpu (showing less than 1% in task manager while running, atm). I know this isn't a direct fix, but it's worth trying a different approach if it means not having to wait for devs do do something they might never do. Btw, I'm using LoopMIDI, not LoopBe; I was incorrect, but I think the latter can do the same thing. Not really having any problems with LoopMIDI though.

 

@Mr36 @apexx305
First of all, let me say that I use Maschine mainly in a live context and seldom in a production environment. I like a group to be one „sound“ e. g. kick group , chord group, bass group etc. I’m running two instances of Maschine inside of Ableton utilizing two Maschinecontrollers, where the first one only contains drum(groups), while the second holds melodic instruments and the (send)effect groups. Sequencing is all done in the second instance (group a triggers the drums of the first Maschine and the other groups sequence themselves). This works pretty well. Live operates only as a mixer and audio patch bay - and as the main clock. I never use kits and I rarely slice loops. Therefore I might not run into your problems.

I see your point here. If you have a MIDI loop and you want listen how it sounds with another drum kit, it’s annoying that the output routings of your sound slots are reseted every time you load a new kit. And it’s not even possible to workaround by storing the group as a user kit, because routings targeting outside the group are not saved. Btw - the main output and send routings of correspondent group remain - maintaining the same logic as on soundlevel.
I think the basic idea of this concept is - if your using kits you'll mix them on group level anyway. But even if you do so, you’re not able to share some send effects with other groups, because the routings of sound slots are reseted every time you load a new kit.
But frankly - I don’t know any audio software, which allows this: replacing a bunch of sounds/tracks, while remaining the routings targeting outside this cluster. And I think there are good reasons for this behavior - see my previous post.

Eventually it’s possible to achieve this kind of workflow using a plugin like Battery or another drumsampler - routing the individual plugin outputs to the pads and change the kits inside of the plugin hoping the plugin remembers it’s output settings. I don’t know - I haven’t checked.
But what you actually do, if you using a plugin this way - is adding another storage layer (the internal plugin settings - besides sound, group and project layer) and this is what your essentially asking for, even if we’re talking „only“ about a hold-routing-function: a new layer of information, maybe a new file format inside of Maschine, which independently stores the output settings of sound slots (targeting outside the correspondent group - all other possible output settings are saved already). And another one for group level effects. And remember this whole „routing confusion“ only appears when you want to change several sound slots/pads at the same time. As long as you’re dealing with only one sound slot at a time the problem does not exist.

Don’t get me wrong, i really understand why you’re requesting this. But as I stated elsewhere, I see Maschine as a groovebox (a very sophisticated one) or an instrument to be played live. I just don’t want Maschine to develop the Abletonroute - a once great and stable performance orientated tool featured to death by gradually adding „daw-esk“ functions. For that reason i like to to think twice which implications an apparent simple and obvious feature request entails.

Me too.

Allow me to finish with a more general note. The biggest misconception in the perception of Maschine seems to me - due to the fact that the simple things are so incredible easy, quick and touchable - that the more komplex aspects of making computerbased music are getting less complicated only by using it.

 

+1

 

I am glad I found this thread. I was horrified to discover that I cannot have one channel in my DAW correspond with a Maschine group and that the settings are forgotten every time I change a kit. Since the Machine Arranger is such a train wreck I want to do my composing in my DAW. But it seems I can't even do that.

 

Composing in a daw was spot easy until NI changed things starting with the Maschine 2.0 update. 2.o was a nightmare and 2.1+ made things just a little easier but settings arent saved , especially thru , so you have to be careful as hell not to run into huge feedback.

 

Please fix this. I will not buy the Kontrol S until I can browse sounds without constantly changing my MIDI settings.

 

+1 this is the only thing that realy bothers me constantly (except of scene independent automation and a song mode for standalone, wich is the reason i don't use maschine in standalone). Maschine would be such a genius piece of controller, if only the software wouldn't destroy it.

 

Hopefully NI see's that this post keeps getting revived for the past year now, and might add it to the next update

 

So this issue doesn't appear to be addressed in the upcoming 2.3 update according to the release notes. Starting to lose hope here. It seems like such a simple feature but it's such a workflow bottleneck (for me at least) it erases a lot of the benefits of having the Maschine at all. Especially when the functionality we're looking for already existed in a previous version. Not only is it possible, it was already implemented and taken away. I thought I bought this to have *fewer* headaches!

 

both versions of maschine can be installed and run simultaneously, in and out of a daw. no reason we can't keep working...lame dev decisions? yes. insurmountable roadblock? not at all. lots of options here...but keep the heat on, they'll feel it eventually. maybe.

 

Maschine 1.8 is no longer available for download. So where do you get your copy if you uninstalled it?

 

best place would probably be the install disk.

 

Is there a way to get 1.8 for those of us who bought in at 2.0?

 

not officially, but there is, you know, the internet. if it wasn't a 5gb image, i would upload it for you.

 

Actually I think this is not possible with the Maschine Studio I have. Appreciate your Poo though, PooFox.