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ridiculous amount of problems live, Belgium, Germany

Discussion in 'Technical Issues' started by John Daminato_Tf, Nov 3, 2007.

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  1. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    Problems/bugs:
    playlist:
    1:Can't read mp3 tags
    2:playlist completely disapear after using relocation command
    After restart of program they reappear.
    3:In the explorer menu going directly to my collection folder,
    sometimes it will show my collection, sometimes it won't

    Problems/bugs:
    Playback:
    1. Program automatically puts itself in relative mode and matching beats was extremely difficult at this time.
    2. When switching from phono to line on one particular mixer my control signal completely disapeared.
    Detailed explanation: You can hear the signal when you switch mixer to phono and traktors control signal
    appears to be perfect. As soon as I switch to line the control signal disapeares. Temporaly fix was to unplugg
    USB 8's phono output from back of mixer. But now analog dj's can't play vinyl and either can!
    3. Control signal looked like a boomerang.
    4. Control signal section in preferences is completely mising!

    There appears to be a whole section missing in my prefs, i cant find gate or response.

    4.Twice after installing newest version, the pitch said -100 and when playing record at normal speed it plays extra
    slow but not -100 more like -15 or something.

    5. Audio statistics panel is missing after update. I noticed this is a common problem. Either way, i spent 60minutes trying to find it and reinstalling, thinking i did something wrong. Then i saw audio 8 dj settings shortcut, clicked it, it does nothing...Does it do anything?

    I have to say, traveling with this system has been a major headache and i seem to encounter new problems at every gig. <i tested this system for 50 hours before i brought out to gigs. i also sent my main problems to tech support but have not recieved a response yet...
     
  2. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

    Messages:
    26,792
    more info needed.
    what computer system etc.?

    here also, more info needed.

    ecler smac series?

    bad adjusted tonearm and/ or needles.

    when... more info...

    as said in the TS 1.1 manual addendum, these sections are not in the preferences. (it was during betatest, but not in the final version)

    more info.

    it's not a problem. it's not there, because it's coded out.

    it opens to the system tray.

    that's very sad to hear and cannot be confirmed from my side...

    when did you? ticket number?
     
  3. djquartz

    djquartz NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,321
    Check to make sure the 45 rpm handling mode is not enabled. Another user posted this problem on the forum and that option was turned on somehow after TS didn't shutdown properly.
     
  4. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    last wednesday, filled out all the information in your online form, still i haven´t received a reply. unacceptable, my gigs are over, damage done. At this point, we both look bad, me to the promoters, u to the djs that are thinking of buying your system.
    Is there a germany tech phone number, i couldnt find it while i was here.
     
  5. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

    Messages:
    26,792
    it's a ecler smac speciality. that was also problematic in FS2 times. perform a search here if you want to find out more or the workaround (using software thru. there is a comprehensive posting of quartz somewhere flying around)

    really? never heard that. and now i understand that it's hard to reproduce.

    if you have grounding issues, you would have surely seen this in the control signal picture... and then you have to checkout and fix the grounding in the location somehow. but this is not normal.

    what do you think when gets the manual written and composed - when the software is done? nope, it's done meanwhile. and sometimes features are removed or added pretty late. that's where the declaimer is for... *subject to change* etc.
    this is stuff that should get added to the readme.

    yeah, that's because no turntable is running/ the turntable is stopped = -100 bpm. as soon as you start the turntable it gets back to 0.

    could be also the other way round - calibrating on 45 rpm speed, maybe.

    the support didnt find it helpful to find out issues.

    i agree, this is stuff for the readme.

     
  6. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    Quote:
    I remember from old final scratch systems that if the plastic part of the cartrige is touching the coded vinyl in anyway it would upset the code.
    really? never heard that. and now i understand that it's hard to reproduce.

    Im guessing that this might of contributed to the problem...I have direct experience with this being a problem in the past, especially when the code was even more sensitive.


    Quote:
    In most cases it appeared to me the bass feedbacking on the system was causing the code to be disrupted, distorted. So in relative mode under these conditions making pitch adjustments are too slow live.
    if you have grounding issues, you would have surely seen this in the control signal picture... and then you have to checkout and fix the grounding in the location somehow. but this is not normal.

    When I say bass feedback, what Im referring to is the PA system is loud enough that the decks/vinyl acts as a pickup and resonates with every kick and bass note, yes its subtle but enough to corrupt the signal. If you are mixing on cd players this not a problem, never was. If you mix at home, this problem wont show up. If you mix on a system that has 4 15" bass bins in a medium size room and the sound is near 120db or better your screwed in my experience if your stuck only using coded vinyl. So basically any PA system in a club. Unless your in a isolated booth with small monitors, which some high end clubs have. This has always been an issue (like 4 years) but I thought it was fixed with this new system and its "New" code and built in optimized software to pickup a clean signal under these conditions.

    In my studio I put a event 20/20 monitor up very close to the turntables. The monitor is isolated from where the turntable sits..Even at a low db of 90db, I can see the signal being slightly corrupted with every beat. This doesnt appear to be enuf to do any damage with beat matching. When the system defaulted to relative mode due to what ever...Beatmatching was damn near impossible. What exactly causes the system to default to relative mode. It didnt start out this way, it calibrated normally, then after a few records defaulted and would not give me the option to pull out.

    Last gig I did, where the code look foreign to me, I ran a separate ground to the mixer and audio 8...Made no difference.


    Quote:
    When opening the software, the pitch of one channel was -100, this has happened 3 times now once live.
    yeah, that's because no turntable is running/ the turntable is stopped = -100 bpm. as soon as you start the turntable it gets back to 0.

    This makes no sense to me and is somekinda bug that needs to be fixed. It only happens sometimes and when it does, im telling you the records dont play back properly. You then either restart the ware or turn the a-b buttons of the scratch section back off then on and this has worked a few times.

    I finally got the reply from the NI tech team. he gave me some tips. Honestly, I dont think anything that will fix the problems Im having but I will try never the less. Also some things that I dont like hearing..Like i should have a dedicated 7200rpm hardrive...Who has laptops with two separate internal hardrives? My laptop has a 7200rpm drive either way. Also said to make sure my tracks are analyzed correctly...So I will reanalyze all 1700 tracks..LOL
     
  7. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

    Messages:
    26,792
    but TBH - the plastic part of the cartride should never touch the vinyl. so this is another possible case of a wrong setup tonearm!

    i dont know where you are spinning, but 120 db nearby the DJ are inaceptable. permanent disadvantages for DJs working at a loudness of 85 and more decibel are confirmed.
    in germany there is a law proposal that clubs should not be allowed to go over 99 db. in most clubs i was spinning are limiters etc. pp.
    you really have more serious issues than calibration problems when your monitors do have such a loudness...

    but besides that, nem0nic once put a speaker on the second turntable to trick out the calibration with no success.

    good question - please ask the support. i have never seen this.

    so, in fact, your problem is not the display of the pitch (or did you try to calibrate without the record running?), but calibration.

    and then, we're back at the setup...
     
  8. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    Ok, 120 is a lot excessive and might not exist in a dj booth...Hopefully, but 99db in a club is very low. Actually there is a problem with our measurement system that we keep throwing around. Im/u are confusing how to measure sound exactly. SPL is measured in db but there are many weighting systems. (A) weighting tries to emulate the characteristics of the ear and this is what you can use to protect your ears when testing spl. But when it comes to specific frequencies like bass, things begin to change. Like if I was to cut out 200hz and play 100db signal I doubt this would disrupt the code..But Im pretty sure based on experience, 100db of 200hz and below would corrupt your code coming off of vinyl.

    True the plastic part of the needle should never touch the vinyl...Im not sure if this happened..Im trying to diagnose the problem with you and in my past experience with Final Scratch 1 and 2, when this happened the system wouldnt calibrate properly. I dont think this was the problem because my system did calibrate, it then just didnt work properly through out the mix.


    quote
    but besides that, nem0nic once put a speaker on the second turntable to trick out the calibration with no success.

    Hmmm, can you explain this process in more detail? Because I have my monitoring system set up at 85db A weighted and I can see that the code is being slight disrupted. THe monitor is about 1" away from the decks. This slight distortion doesnt have any effect on the performance of this system.

    BTW 85db (A) will not damage your ears..85db is what audio engineers recommend you monitor at in order to be able to do prolonged mixing sessions. 4hours at a time with 1/2 hour breaks in between. Damage occurs with level and duration.

    Native girl, buy a db meter and walk into your loudest club in Germany..Stand 3ft away from the pa system and you will be surprised I think. A db meter from radio shack will cost you 15$ Alot less since your dollar is worth 50% more...LOL...actually its not funny..
     
  9. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    http://www.radioshack.com/sm-digital-display-sound-level-meter--pi-2103667.html


    ooops, they are more expensive then I thought..but you can get a used one for testing purposes.

    Native girl, Im thinking that this problem wont be fixed, because its not fixable yet. The bulk of djs buying this system wont run into these problems and lot big dogs are leaning on real vinyl and mostly cds still.

    I know a few local pros using DVS systems with success, I think Serato is the main brand around here now, but when they mix on heavy sound systems and if I remember correctly they have to use cd decks under these situations, because it appears to me they have ran into the same problem of stability.

    Can you tell me why Serato is the more popular at the momment? Is the code considered more stable?
     
  10. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

    Messages:
    26,792
    he once posted a video here... i dont have a link handy. maybe PM him or maybe a search here or on youtube will bring the video up.
    indeed, even a soft touchment of the record *distorts* the control signal graphics - do a little bit of scratching and see how it looks. :) but this doesnt have an effect on the tracking, usually.

    i doubt ;) i know that realtiy often differs from the ideal. but i know a lot of clubs are having limiters now.

    a) they stepped in the gap between FS1 and FS2.
    b) they were advertising the hiphop DJs mostly, a user group, NI & stanton didnt target at all (bad mistake).
    c) ssl isnt that ambitious as traktor. traktor always lets you several things to choose, gives several possible ways to do things etc. where ssl gives you only ONE possibility (e.g. hotkeys)
    d) traktor is more ressource intensive, partly because the hardware (FS2 amp and A8) has always been a *normal* asio soundcard as well, while the serato box can only do ssl.
    e) once a critial mass was using ssl, DJs just followed what they saw most. and dont forget, TS is the new kid in town (released in may).
     
  11. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    I guess I will just stick it out for awhile.
     
  12. fciapi

    fciapi NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    22
    1.8 supports midi controllers.

    The SSL box can be used as a soundcard in windows. No core audio drivers for Mac yet.

    I've own SSL for 2 years and recently bought Traktor Scratch. I will soon sell one of the two systems...
     
  13. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    actually I heard about some kinda of drift that occurs when this system is in relative mode, this is from users. Can you tell me what this problem is?

    Another DVS user on another board said this:

    "thats because traktor the program, uses pitch control of 125.6, so theres no inbetween point, i use deccadance for that reason u can use a bpm of 125.677, and u can actually beatmatch 2 songs for as long as u want and u can use ssl or your traktor interface and timecoded vinyl"

    To me the higher the resolution of tempo, would equate to a better beatmatching system. Not sure if I need 1/100 but why not.
     
  14. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

    Messages:
    26,792
    is 1.8 finally out now or still beta?

    the soundcard use is also a 1.8 feature, AFAIK.
    and what i heard from users who use both, ssl and TS, the ssl asio drivers are not that good, but as said, that's not from own experience.
     
  15. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

    Messages:
    26,792
    that's BS. traktor is .xxx accurate. obviously someone was mislead by the display (which does not equal the used value).

    i read people report drifting, but personally i was never able to reproduce it.

    *shrugs shoulders*
     
  16. fciapi

    fciapi NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    22
    SSL 1.8 is still a beta, but it's really stable.
    SSL is the benchmark for stability in dvs systems, that's why it is so popular.
     
  17. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    I just realized something and maybe Im wrong...I really flippen hope. How do I use one cd for timecode and one vinyl for timecode? I really hope this system can do this, because I was able to do this years ago with FS2 and NI developed that ware so...But just looking at the hardware, the way you have to switch, makes me think not.
     
  18. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    Why is this system so stable? I know guys using it that play vinyl and most the time I see them using SSL with CDJ1000's..That makes me think it has similiar problems under heavy bass systems.
     
  19. fciapi

    fciapi NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    22
    The software is stable. I've been using it for two years, in various version, and it never crashed, even when running along Ableton Live. It's also quite simple, intuitive and light on the cpu. SSL just works, really. But I've bought Traktor Scratch as well, so I'm one of those thinking that there's room for improvement.
    I always use vinyl and never had problems with bass. I don't think a dvs system is more sensible to bass then a common vinyl. It may be less instead, because the grooves on the record contain no bass frequencies and the needle can track better.
     
  20. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    I just did a little experiment, I used one real vinyl and one Cd controller disk on cdj100S, which is a very old cd deck. I locked the beats on a particular blend at +1.2 pitch and could literally walk away for 30 seconds. I tried the same experiment with the same songs but now using a control vinyl instead of cd. I set the technic at +1.2 and what I noticed is it was harder to keep the beats locked, I did get them locked, but not for nearly as long, I did not feel confident to walk away like I did with the real vinyl and cd. There must be some sort of drift but the software doesnt show it in the pitch. When you compound that drift with two controller vinyls what you get is a more difficult blending situation. I have probably done well over 100gigs with FS1 and 2 and I never felt this difficulty like I do with this system. I cant explain it and I cant pinpoint it but I feel it. Maybe because I have been using the Key lock more and that was something I never used to do. Maybe this keylock adds to the drift somehow. I mean my cpu is not even at 25% at the highest quality keylock...



    I have another experiment. I could bounce a perfect 440hz tone out and then record it while TS is playing back, then have Melodyne tell me exactly whats going on pitch wise..This should reveal all descrepencies including drift and pitch flaws.
     
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